Four dollars a gallon.

Nick Zentena · Mar 4, 2008

jd callow said:
They aren't driving 300hp mustangs, Dodge Hemi's, or American full size SUV's.

I think it was this thread but I mentioned parking next to a big Suburan with German plates while out shopping last Friday. North American cars are damn expensive in Europe. I spent about 15 seconds checking Jeep prices. A Jeep costs a little more in Euros then the C$ price. Lets see the exchange rate is about 1.5 so that means the European price is about 50% more. But still plenty of full size pickups. With gun racks to I don't know if anybody is importing mustangs but they would be expensive. OTOH you'll see plenty of things like the Plymouth Cruzier [Chrysler?]

It's not just fule prices. Annual road tax is based on HP so a big HP engine will cost you more to put on the road not just in gas. That means it'll be a status symbol for some people

Eric Rose · Mar 4, 2008

Don't ya just luv the free market economy? Don't get me wrong I'm no pinko commie but if the car manufacturers were not forced to improve gas mileage and safety by government intervention they would not have. Maybe the government should say to big oil, hey guys you made kazillions of bucks when gas sold for .70 cents a liter so lets peg it right there. The cry would be enormous but they would adjust. Maybe the wages in the oil patch would have to be rolled back to what the rest of us have to live on. The horror!

Jon King · Mar 4, 2008

bdial said:
I've driven through several winter storms where most of the vehicles off the road are SUV's

Yep. All cars already have 4 wheel stop(brakes). Under bad conditions, 4 wheel drive makes it easier for a driver to get into trouble that the brakes can't keep them out of.

mark · Mar 4, 2008

It is not the car, it is the driver that gets into trouble.

MartinB · Mar 4, 2008

driving slower to reduce fuel use

Robert,

I tend to drive less recently but high gas prices are only part of the reason. I also try to be a little more aware of the impact of car use although don't always think before jumping in the car. Trying to consider impact of usage has raised my awareness and reduced somewhat the mileage driven. I try more to work with local subject matter. For me, distant subject matter is a bit like a new piece of gear - nice to have but I can always do better with what I have already. I am considering a workshop this year and have to decide on whether to drive from Calgary to Shore Acres, Oregon or stay more local and drive to a workshop in Montana. Both are attractive.

I used to drive more often for the express purpose of taking photos but now tend to combine trips. For example, when going skiing the camera is always in the car and I try to leave early enough to make some photographs along the way.

When we bought our latest car 3 years ago, fuel consumption and safety were primary considerations. Careful reading of crash statistics revealed that car engineering is far more important than size for safety so we chose a well designed small car. I have tried to mitigate the impact of driving (and cost of fuel) by driving slower and not accelerating as quickly. After experimenting, I have found that reducing highway speed from 115 kph to 95 kph reduces fuel consumption at least 20% in a variety of vehicles. And surprisingly, usually only adds a few minutes to a journey. On a couple of trips to Saskatoon (600 km), the driving time is the same - at 115 kph, I need to stop once for gas while at 95 kph I can make it on a single tank so the resulting travel time is the same but 20% less expensive! Within the city and keeping to the speed limit, most cars pass me but I am amazed at how often aggressive drivers who accelerate heavily and weave in and out of traffic to get ahead only end up a couple of cars (and at best a minute or two ahead) even on journeys of several km in the city. For those who doubt, give it a good try for a few weeks. And a 20-25% saving brings the cost of a $4 gallon back down to the $3 range and at the same time saves the same amount of emissions. I know this approach will not work for everyone but it helps me deal with the issues of cost and emissions so I can get out and make the photographs I want.

Andrey · Mar 4, 2008

Eric Rose said:
Don't ya just luv the free market economy? Don't get me wrong I'm no pinko commie but if the car manufacturers were not forced to improve gas mileage and safety by government intervention they would not have. Maybe the government should say to big oil, hey guys you made kazillions of bucks when gas sold for .70 cents a liter so lets peg it right there. The cry would be enormous but they would adjust. Maybe the wages in the oil patch would have to be rolled back to what the rest of us have to live on. The horror!

That would be the advantage of the totalitarian government and a comrade stalin to bring forward such an idea.

Not going to happen.

jd callow · Mar 4, 2008

I tend to go to an area and shoot for a period of time (all day to weeks). Once at the location I tend to burn little or no gas. I sold our truck and gave away our subaru station wagon so I'm hard pressed to burn any fuel on my own. For me in the near future the price of oil will be reflected in a general increase in my cost of living, but shouldn't impact my photography.

Sirius Glass · Mar 5, 2008

These younguns, it was before their time, but back in the day were were paying $3 a gallon!

Steve

stillsilver · Mar 8, 2008

I don’t photograph well with others also. It seems everyone’s speed is different. There tends to be a lot of waiting on someone or hurrying because others are waiting(and those negs usually don’t get printed). On day trips with the family, I will take a 35mm camera, fast film and no tripod. I’ll get a couple of shots for reference and keep moving. If I like what I got I’ll go back later myself and shoot with the MF (LF after it arrives in the mail). On longer trips I usually get a morning to myself with the camera. But gas prices will affect distance of trips and perhaps the number of trips.

Mike

Antje · Mar 9, 2008

My hubby and I went shooting yesterday and took our Toyota Yaris. I love it for that purpose, it rides high, is small, and turns on a plate, so no worries about finding a spot to park. You can squeeze it into almost any nook along the road. Actually, that is why I bought it - after test driving it, I knew this would not only fare well in cities. That I can go about 700-750km on 40 l of gas was just an added bonus to me at that point. And yes, driving long distances is no problem, either, even keeping up on a German autobahn, being hunted by BMWs, is perfectly fine. I especially like that I sit relatively upright in that car, I don't tire that fast.

I truly believe if more people gave small cars a chance, they would realize that they are more than up to the job.

Antje

jd callow · Mar 9, 2008

Yes if we all drove small cars we'd get better gas mileage, be much safer (only commercial folks would be driving 2 ton monsters), and we'd burn through the oil at the same rate or faster. Do we want to be able to afford our current definition of independence even though it comes at the expense of tomorrow's options? IMHO Its a good idea to have really costly travel, if it gets us to cleaner, renewable fuels sooner. Until cars run on waste I'll vote for a Lincoln town car in every drive way.

dancqu · Mar 9, 2008

jd callow said:
IMHO Its a good idea to have really costly travel,
if it gets us to cleaner, renewable fuels sooner.

That is a prod. Following that example would be untold
numbers of sunburned, cancerous, folks still using
fluorinated arousals and refrigerants.

Any substitutes will do but fossil fuels must go. Dan

Andy K · Mar 9, 2008

dancqu said:
Any substitutes will do but fossil fuels must go. Dan

Yup, that warming is getting really bad now, huh?

Curt · Mar 9, 2008

I had a '58 Simca in high school, it was my grandfathers car that he bought new in '58. It had a "Flash" 4 cylinder engine, four speed column shift, four door sedan that got 32 mpg, US, and was easy to drive and cheap. With more than two people you had to let one out on a steep hill to get a run or push. On the highway it would go fast on the straight a little slower on the hills had coasted on the down grades. I just loved that car. I still see them in movies filmed in France in the "older" days.

Alex Hawley · Mar 9, 2008

dancqu said:
Any substitutes will do but fossil fuels must go. Dan

Got any viable solutions to the problem, or just repeated rhetoric?

c6h6o3 · Mar 9, 2008

Alex Hawley said:
Got any viable solutions to the problem, or just repeated rhetoric?

Hydrogen fuel cells
Active solar energy
Wind power
Photovoltaics

All of these technologies have had viable, effective physical realizations implemented. Honeywell had an active solar array atop their parking lot in 1980 which generated 100% of the energy to heat their main office (in Minneapolis). Then Ronnie Raygun took office. There went that idea.

What makes these products non-viable is the economic and political hegemony of big oil, not the technology.

Wouldn't it be nice to tell the Saudis what they can do with their oil because we don't need it? And that's not a pipe dream. The technology is there. We just need the political will to commit to developing it.

Alex Hawley · Mar 9, 2008

c6h6o3 said:
What makes these products non-viable is the economic and political hegemony of big oil, not the technology.

Is that fact or urban legend?

Not picking on you Jim, just trying to get to the bottom of the rhetoric.

Curt · Mar 22, 2008

Truckers and industry officials say slowing a tractor-trailer rig from 75 mph to 65 mph increases fuel mileage by more than a mile a gallon. What about a car or light truck?

Anyone slowing down to conserve?

mikebarger · Mar 22, 2008

My wrangler at 55mph gets 20mpg at 70 it gets 16mpg. Around town it's about 17mpg. I don't drive it hard.
Mike

Murray@uptowngallery · Mar 22, 2008

arigram said:
I am in Crete.
I drive a donkey.

:O)

Do you get 1 hp from that donkey, or is it somewhat less?

...about bigger/safer, I commute 72 miles a day in a small car that tells me if it has traction problems in snow/ice. I have had alot of snow to drive in this winter, and I watch how many of the big vehicles end up in the ditch, or worse, on their sides. Apparently in Michigan, having a bigger vehicle doesn't help people remember the road conditions from 3 weeks earlier, or help them drive any smarter.

I don't get it...

Are bigger cameras safer??

Michael Kadillak · Mar 22, 2008

Four Dollars a Gallon

First thing we need to do as a nation is get out head out of our ass. We have 80+ years of experience with automobiles and it is not about the need to go from point A to point B. It is a status of our unnecessary elevated standard of living. Everyone is culpable from the Sierra Club all down the line. We have decided that petroleum companies are all bad when we hear record earnings from Exxon even though only 25% of these revenues are attributable to domestic sales or operations. Ethanol is a complete joke because it takes more natural gas to make ethanol than the product delivers at the pump and without the Federal subsidy it would be priced at $9 a gallon. I am leaving the increased cost of affiliated agricultural commodities alone but they are real and contribute to inflation. But the television commercials want to convince us that this is a good thing. Hogwash.

Increased prices at the pump are asking the fundamental question that we all need to collectively answer. Prices will increase to $4.50 through $5.00 and $6 per gallon until consumers defer buying or the free market brings new product into the marketplace. O do not consider a shift to a new transportation standard because US consumers have never had to make a fundamental shift in their personal spending habits based upon external forces. It has been the land of milk and honey for a very long time.

The next bad guy in the energy mix is coal because of the perception that global warming is our responsibility. Now we are defaulting to nautral gas for the 3% annual growth for power generation when we have hundreds of years worth of coal. Bunch of crap. Natural gas is far to valuable to expend on generating power. Wait until your power bills go up by a factor of four for starters.

The earth has an a amazing propensity to spew toxic products into its own environment (volcanoes and methane and petroleum seepage to name a few) and these have been going on for millions of years. We have to find a way to stop blaming someone for what we all own as our problem and stop whining about it.

I will continue to drive as far and as often as I want to make photographs because I have structured my income to accomodate it. I have purchased a motorcycle as a plan B and use it as often as possible.

Welcome to the brave new world....

Daniel Lawton · Mar 22, 2008

I'm hate to be pessimistic but we are currently witnessing a paradigm shift in humanity and very tough times are indeed coming our way. I would highly recommend to everyone the national bestselling book "The Coming Economic Collapse" by economist Stephen Leeb. He was one of the ones who gave early warning of the dot com bust and several years ago predicted that oil would be at $100 a barrel by the end of the decade. At the time he was universally laughed at considering that people were balking at the then current price of $35 which was high considering it dropped to as low as a measly $10/barrel around the turn of the millenium. Gas in NJ was a pathetic 89 cents a gallon at one point. Oil and fuel costs are gointing to continue to rise, make no mistake about it. There is not enough out there to supply the huge increase in demand from China and India and some experts are saying that reserves in the Saudi Oil Fields are 50% depleted. In fact it is suspected that they reached the 50% mark several years ago (an accusation the Saudis are "hush hush" about and deny) Anyone familiar with this knows that when any oil reserve is depleted by half, the cost of extraction increases exponentionally. Indeed we can look towards alternative energy methods but this transformation is incredibly monumental and can't be completed before the burden of increased petroleum costs becomes unbearable. Retrofitting a country such as the U.S, that is so incredibly dependent on oil, is not something that is going to happen in under a decade. The fact that many prominent political and economic leaders feel as though oil will eventually return to normal is only ensuring the crash will be that much harder. Oil will continue to go up over the long term. Thus, the coming years may indeed be the toughest the United States (and the world) has had to face. This goes way beyond $ per gallon and travel costs. Fossil fuels are the single most important aspect/indicator of our economy. Every facet of our culture and lifestyle will be affected without a doubt.

Photo Engineer · Mar 22, 2008

Everyone talks about the weather, but no one does anything about it. (Mark Twain)

PE

Nick Zentena · Mar 23, 2008

Daniel Lawton said:
In fact it is suspected that they reached the 50% mark several years ago (an accusation the Saudis are "hush hush" about and deny)

Now why would the Saudis being hushing this up? To keep prices down? :rolleyes: How do they gain by claiming to have more oil?

High gas prices will lead to to changes. No question about it.

1) Lower housing prices outside of city centres.

2) Higher prices and densities in cities.

jd callow · Mar 23, 2008

I've read where the Saudis have been playing with their reserve numbers for years -- always increasing the amount in the ground. Why is anyone's guess, just as it is anyone's guess how much is still in the ground, but i think the Saudis would extend the numbers to keep their populace inline and to keep the world calm and themselves in the drives seat.

Four dollars a gallon.

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Four dollars a gallon.

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