Fotokemika ...

[Roger Cole]

Guys, how much for repair overall? could efke guys open donate site? i can help with money or i can order custom build parts.
please dont close the doors

Mirko already addressed that. It's not that they can't afford the repair. They can. It's that they won't make enough back in the long run to make the repair worthwhile.

It sounds like mostly they are victims of the run up in silver prices.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

I don't really want to diss the retailers but here in the UK it's virtually impossible to buy Fotokemika products. You can buy Efke Infrared, in limited formats from some retailers, and 127 film but you can't get any other films or any of their papers. The only way to get their products is to order from the US, then pay exorbitant postage and import duties. Given you can drive a truck from the UK to their factory in less than a day it is ridiculous we have to get it from the US. If the UK speciality analogue retailers want to stay in business they need to realise that they need to support the whole analogue industry not just their favourite suppliers. If the range of analogue products continues to dwindle so will the amount of young people taking up the process and they will then be left with no business.

We offer almost their entire range under the ADOX brand which actually is the original brand for these products.
You can (or better I have to say could now) get them from Ag photographic and silverprint.

Mirko

 

[Mr Man]

We offer almost their entire range under the ADOX brand which actually is the original brand for these products.
You can (or better I have to say could now) get them from Ag photographic and silverprint.

Mirko

My apologies. So is all the art series Fotokemika? it is hard to tell what is what with this re-branding. This is indeed very bad news, what of the “Adox” products will be discontinued (I love them all)? Guess we will all have to just buy more Polywarmtone when it is finally ready.

 

[MartinP]

To Mr.Man, post-230. Why not order their products from a UK online-shop? Or a German or Dutch one? Off the top of my head AG-photographic, Maco, Fotoimpex, the Dutch Adox site and FotohuisRovo all have (with rapidly reducing stocklevel, due to people ordering a lot) Efke film and paper as I have checked them out for my own orders in the last week, and indeed over the last few years. I am fairly sure this is not an exhaustive list.

It is almost certainly true that you won't have seen their products in Boots (a national chain of 'drugstore') though.

 

[IronStar]

Mirko already addressed that. It's not that they can't afford the repair. They can. It's that they won't make enough back in the long run to make the repair worthwhile.

It sounds like mostly they are victims of the run up in silver prices.

But I guess it would me more affordable/profitable for them if they only paid fraction of repair.

 

[SkipA]

But I guess it would me more affordable/profitable for them if they only paid fraction of repair.

No, it would not. You need to go read the entire thread, and not just start at the last few posts. Mirko has explained this already several times. The cost of the repair is not the primary issue. Even if a generous benefactor simply gave them the money for the repair, it would make no difference. It is a matter of ongoing profitability in today's market.

See posts (there was a url link here which no longer exists), (there was a url link here which no longer exists), and (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

 

[zsas]

This is so sad....

Yeah yeah I know 100's of posts on Apug predict a convergence of analog manufactures, but, when it actually happens and you have invested a lot of time, money and artistic energy in the materials we choose, it just hurts to have to go fishing again for alternatives.

Darko/Mirko - Please relay my sympathy to any employees you all encounter. I am proudly putting up a few prints this weekend on my walls that used Fotokemika materials somewhere in the process as some sort of solidarity.

Mirko - As Mr Man asks above, "...what of the “Adox” products will be discontinued?"

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

"...what of the “Adox” products will be discontinued?"

All CHS films, Nuance and Vario Classic.

Vario Classic can fully be replaced by MCC which is actually better.
Nuance was a graded paper and thus cannot be fully replaced by MCC or Polywarmtone if/when we make it again but MCC can be developed to a similar tone in ADOTOL WA. Also the highlight differentiation of Nuance and MCC are almost equal if you filter MCC acordingly.
The lithability of Nuance was very good. If you used the paper for lith printing Polywarmtone will be the repelacement.

As for the films we plan to bring a replacement for the low speed films and a 100 ASA version.
The 100 ASA film will come first and be made available in the same selection of formats except 127.
We hope to be able to supply without an interruption here.

Kind regards,

Mirko

 

[Mr Man]

Mixed news then and I look forward to the new films.

Vario Classic can fully be replaced by MCC which is actually better.

I can't agree with this though, it was different and an additional tool in the box, it was great for creating some soft dreamy portraits. Glad variotone premium is staying I love this paper

 

[Pioneer]

As for the films we plan to bring a replacement for the low speed films and a 100 ASA version.
The 100 ASA film will come first and be made available in the same selection of formats except 127.
We hope to be able to supply without an interruption here.

Kind regards,

Mirko

I for one will watch for the ISO 25 film, particularly if it is a similar emulsion to Fotokemika's product. I have used the Adox Ortho 25 and Pan 25 in the past, and will likely begin using it again when my supply of Efke 25 runs out.

 

[georg16nik]

I for one will watch for the ISO 25 film, particularly if it is a similar emulsion to Fotokemika's product. I have used the Adox Ortho 25 and Pan 25 in the past, and will likely begin using it again when my supply of Efke 25 runs out.

Adox Pan 25 was discontinued last year, there was a thread on apug about it and Mirko explained all.
There are still some "ADOX PAN 25 120 -while stock lasts-" rolls on Fotoimpex website, so You might get lucky.

 

[Pioneer]

Adox Pan 25 was discontinued last year, there was a thread on apug about it and Mirko explained all.
There are still some "ADOX PAN 25 120 -while stock lasts-" rolls on Fotoimpex website, so You might get lucky.

Ah well. Foiled again. I guess it is a good thing that I have a lot of Efke 25 on ice. Hopefully someone will decide to produce some more before I run out.

None the less, my film supply problems are very, very minor compared to all the people in Croatia who no longer have a job. I have been there before so I do hope that things work out for them.

 

[Felinik]

It's very sad that Fotokemika's situation is at the point of diminishing return. When I think of the employees who rely on their operation for a living it becomes even harder to accept. I'm not sure how silver rich their films and papers are in comparison to Foma, Ilford, Kodak, etc, but it is a thing of economy of scale. If you spend more money making the product than you can reasonably charge for it, there isn't much that can be done.

Silver (and other raw materials) has become incredibly expensive, and you can view it as a similar situation to the transportation industry; take airlines, for example. It used to be that jet fuel was rather inexpensive, so the airlines could fly people to all corners of the world with fuel guzzling airplanes at reasonable prices. But then fuel prices went up, and all of a sudden their profits were gone, to the point that they have to stop handing out meals on most flights, charge for suitcases etc - basically put all those costs back with the customers. Now, with more fuel efficient engines and technology it's entirely possible to be profitable again, as difficult as it may seem, but it can be done.
Back to film - silver is like jet fuel - incredibly expensive. So what can Fotokemika do? They don't have enough R&D to redesign their films to contain less silver, so they could increase their prices. But then their market share would shrink, probably significantly. I'm sure there are those who would be willing to pay more, but what percentage of the population that uses the products today (world wide) would be willing to do that? Who's to say they would remain loyal?

I don't think for a second that it was an easy decision to make, but really, where do they go from here?

Here in the US the films are already on par with Kodak and Ilford price wise. But their papers are much lower priced. Even Foma papers are as expensive as Ilford now, so there would be a fair bit of margin expansion possible in their paper range at least. I'm not so sure about the film range, but at least it's unique enough that they aren't directly comparable to anything else. I'm sure they've weighed these options, but it would be very interesting to hear the reasoning from within the walls at Fotokemika.

Though in this case it is about Fotokemika's paper production, not film.


"From the Freestyle "Industry Snapshot - August 2012", which arrived in my email this morning:

One bit of industry-product related news we need to report is the discontinuation of Fotokemika Emaks and Varycon black and white photographic papers by the manufacturer in Croatia. Efke brand films will continue to be produced for the foreseeable future but paper production from this factory will cease. This is due to the coating machinery no longer being economically repairable due to age and current manufacturing volume. While this is sad news, we are continuing dialog with the Fotokemika factory and working with them to acquire as much of Emaks and Varycon paper that they have left to keep this product in stock as long as possible."

 

[Ian Grant]

Though in this case it is about Fotokemika's paper production, not film.


"From the Freestyle "Industry Snapshot - August 2012", which arrived in my email this morning:

One bit of industry-product related news we need to report is the discontinuation of Fotokemika Emaks and Varycon black and white photographic papers by the manufacturer in Croatia. Efke brand films will continue to be produced for the foreseeable future but paper production from this factory will cease. This is due to the coating machinery no longer being economically repairable due to age and current manufacturing volume. While this is sad news, we are continuing dialog with the Fotokemika factory and working with them to acquire as much of Emaks and Varycon paper that they have left to keep this product in stock as long as possible."

You need to read the thread as that's already out of date news.

Ian

 

[zsas]

Correct Ian, in the States we got that info from Freestyle, however, some locals in Europe, such as Darko and Mirko from Adox have sadly confirmed that this is paper and film.

I think the Freestyle memo is much out of date sadly

 

[Felinik]

Auch!

So now with APX-100 gone, and as it seems then, Efke 100 passing doing the same...

Damn!


Has anyone talked to Fotokemika direct about this?

 

[Felinik]

Efke is ceasing production voluntarily because they cannot make money in selling film and papers anymore. Market prices are way to low for silver based products since about 5 years, especially if your products contain a lot of silver.
Many of our ambitious projects stalled because of this as well.
Repairing the machine is not an option because it makes no economic sense to continue the production after the repair has been done. Not because it can´t be done or there would be no money available (this is simplifying things a bit but in general this is true).

We are not moving their production anywhere. This sad news has hit us suddenly and all we do at this point is thinking about ways what possibly could be done now to deal with the situation. Our stocks will be depleted in about 2 months.

One option is to manufacture a similar film on a small scale with modern technology at a higher price. If it sells at this price, production is sustainable.
This is only possible in our very small factory which we built from pieces of the former Agfa research dept. We are talking quantities here which are a fraction of what efke did and needed to do in order to support their operation in the size it was. They were small compared to Ilford and Kodak but are also quite large compared to us.
For efke this is not an option because on a higher price level turnover will fall and both will lead to the same outcome: Not being able to recover running costs from sales or even think about profit.

Mirko

Interesting!

Have you guys been prospecting on how the small niche market that still exist will be affected by the latest Kodak news? Maybe this would result in a potential increase in market share for you guys?

 

[darkosaric]

Auch!
Has anyone talked to Fotokemika direct about this?

Yes, I did. It is over for efke films and for emaks and varycon as well.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Interesting!

Have you guys been prospecting on how the small niche market that still exist will be affected by the latest Kodak news? Maybe this would result in a potential increase in market share for you guys?

Why? Is Kodak going out of business?

Even if they did, it would be too late to save EKFE products.

PE

 

[alex.g]

let forget about repair for now. what price increase should be done to leave film and papers as per current sales volume?

 

[SkipA]

According to Mirko, any increase in the price of paper and film results in a reduction of demand. I expect he knows what he is talking about.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

According to Mirko, any increase in the price of paper and film results in a reduction of demand. I expect he knows what he is talking about.

I hope he knows what he's talking about. But I claim the Fotokemika paper line is way underpriced here in the US at least, at least comparing it to other paper mfgrs pricing.

 

[alex.g]

understand, but i wish to see some numbers not only words.

 

[georg16nik]

A year ago, some photo buddies and I talked about how Fotokemika might be affected by the fact that Croatia will be granted full membership in European Union in July 1st 2013.
Some said its for good, others said the other way around since there are additional (EU related) bureaucratic burdens that might be facing businesses from new EU member..

Darko, what do You think?

 

[darkosaric]

A year ago, some photo buddies and I talked about how Fotokemika might be affected by the fact that Croatia will be granted full membership in European Union in July 1st 2013.
Some said its for good, others said the other way around since there are additional (EU related) bureaucratic burdens that might be facing businesses from new EU member..

Darko, what do You think?

I think this is not connected with entering in European Union at all. Next year when Croatia enters EU - it will be good for companies in Croatia that are doing business with EU, only those companies that have business with Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia and other CEFTA members will have problems when Croatia enters EU - because automatically by entering EU Croatia is no longer member of CEFTA. Fotokemika did not export anything in CEFTA area.