Fotokemika Varycon TF-4 Fix Times

[Richard Jepsen]

I am trying Varycon FB. Before I misplaced the instructions, I noted the fixing time for their suggested fixer (diluted 1:3) was over 2 min. Am I safe with a 60s fix in TF-4? If not, why would another paper take longer to fix than Ilford MGIV?

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Fibre based double weight paper, regardless of brand needs to fix for 10 to 12 minutes in Rapid Fixer, or two 5-6 minute fixing baths, one after the other, then washed for 2 hours, unless you use a wash aid. This would include the double weight fibre version of Multigrade. But...not the RC.

 

[Photo Engineer]

It depends on the quantity of silver halide coated, the type of silver halide in the coating and the support.

1' in TF4 is short but 10 - 12 mins seems long to me for TF-4. I would use 2 - 3 mins, but overdoing is less harmful than underdoing.

PE

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Are you sure about that? Can you substantiate it, because it goes against anything and everything I have learned about fixing paper to date.

- Thomas

 

[Richard Jepsen]

10 min in fix is longer than Fotokemika recommend. A 10 min fix may be a simple Kodak Fixer. A rapid fixer mixed 1:7 may have a 4 min fix time but mixed to film strength I would think it would be similar to Ilfords Rapidfix times.

 

[Richard Jepsen]

I have lost the paper directions. Could someone who uses the paper post what fix is recommended and the times.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

I use Kodak Rapid Fix with hardener. I can only speak from that, but it says to fix double weight papers in single bath for 10-12, and double bath fixing for approx 5-6 min. per bath. I have not used TF-4 and cannot speak for that, but 2 minutes in ANY fix for DOUBLE WEIGHT fibre paper with a rich silver emulsion seems a bit short.

 

[Richard Jepsen]

My 2003 Kodak Darkroom Guidebook recommends fixing fiber paper for 2.5 to 5 min in two baths. Although not defined in the guidebook, I'm sure Kodak intends the photographer to mix their fix 1:7 vs 1:3 for film. Ilford's fast fix recommendation would result in using Kodak Rapid Fix at the film ratio for a one bath fix of fiber paper. Varycon's recommendation was to mix to a 1:3 ratio but the time was over 2 min. Without knowing much about that fix, I'm unsure if my 60s fix times are adequate for Varycon.

 

[JBrunner]

TF-4's instructions for fiber paper indicate 2 min for fiber paper, with constant agitation. I give it four, to be on the safe side, and have had no problems.

 

[skahde]

I use Kodak Rapid Fix with hardener. I can only speak from that, but it says to fix double weight papers in single bath for 10-12, and double bath fixing for approx 5-6 min. per bath. I have not used TF-4 and cannot speak for that, but 2 minutes in ANY fix for DOUBLE WEIGHT fibre paper with a rich silver emulsion seems a bit short.

Hardened emulsions need longer to fix and wash, hence the different times.
If you can use a non-hardening fixer in film-strength, the increased concentration will compensate for the shortened time as long as the agitation is sufficient. I guess Ilfords research on this must be around about a decade now. Their recommended time for MG IV FB is just 60 seconds.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20061302013402375.pdf

Quote: "There is no benefit in extending fixation beyond
the recommended time"

I could put my hands on some Varycon recently I don't think it is much different from something like Agfa MCC, Ilford MG IV FB or Galerie with respect to fixing or maxD. Maybe one paper will exhaust the fixer a bit faster than another but you can't compensate for that with extended fixing-times anyway.

best wishes

Stefan

 

[Richard Jepsen]

I am forgetful as the next person. I picked up an empty TF-4 bottle to check the label. It reads to fix RC prints for 30s and fiber-based prints for 60s. No stop bath or hypo clearing agent necessary.

 

[JBrunner]

I am forgetful as the next person. I picked up an empty TF-4 bottle to check the label. It reads to fix RC prints for 30s and fiber-based prints for 60s. No stop bath or hypo clearing agent necessary.

Yup, thats what my bottle says, I just double checked it. I had it in my head otherwise.

 

[Richard Jepsen]

I just revisited this post. In an earlier post I mentioned the directions said to use a 1:3 fix ratio. I bought another box of Varycon and the Fotokemika recommends fixing Varycon fiber in Efke FF-1 acid fixer (for about 10 min) or Efke FF-2 rapid fixer (for about 4-6 min) at the bath temperature of 20C. There must be something different about the emulsion for such long fix times.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Richard

The coarser the grain, the higher the iodide content, the higher the silver level, the thicker the coating or the higher the level of certain addenda, the longer the fixing time. That is about all I can add to your comment. And, all of the listed items are additive in their effect or more than additive.

PE

 

[Richard Jepsen]

Does anyone know why Iodine is used in emulsions and the effect of increased silver? I recall reading that so called high silver films and papers do not increase D-max. So, what does higher levels of silver do in image development?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Richard;

Please read my note on the myth of silver rich emulsions posted elsewhere for a detailed description of this.

Silver Iodide is more sensitive to light than silver bromide and silver bromide is more sensitive than silver chloride. If you want a fast developable emulsion you use silver bromo iodide. This is the best of both worlds. It is normally used from 0.3% - 10% in emulsions.

PE