Forte stop it's production

[poutnik]

Where do Foma and Efke fit in the grand scheme? Are they in the same boat as Forte (big old high-capacity factories)?

I may be wrong, but as is on the Foma's website, they already went through a thinning down and are in private hands since 1995. (They were a state owned company till then) So I think (or hope) the case for Foma is a little different...

Jiri

 

[haris]

I believe nothing without convincing evidence. My experience shows it is first tier quality. What evidence can you offer to the contrary?

Exactly.

Ilford seems to be doing well these days despite cheap competition from rebranded second and third tier manufacturers' products. The only way I think black and white products from China could negatively impact Ilford is if they were at the same quality level. While there may be exceptions, most Chinese products aren't noteworthy for their high quality. That might change in future decades -- I remember when the epithet "Japanese junk" was common -- but such transformations typically take a long time.

True. I belive people who for any reason stop using Ilford (unlikely to do, but for the sake of discussion..) would probably go to EFKE, Adox, Foma, Rollei, before go into adventure of cheap, unknown characteristic, Chinese or other products... Ok, Lucky maybe excluded...

 

[uraniumnitrate]

I believe nothing without convincing evidence. My experience shows it is first tier quality. What evidence can you offer to the contrary?

Ilford seems to be doing well these days despite cheap competition from rebranded second and third tier manufacturers' products. The only way I think black and white products from China could negatively impact Ilford is if they were at the same quality level. While there may be exceptions, most Chinese products aren't noteworthy for their high quality. That might change in future decades -- I remember when the epithet "Japanese junk" was common -- but such transformations typically take a long time.

When I'm talking about quality I'm talking about what a film can do in different light situations! now I know that If one film does not work in the conditoins I have here in the north than there is no silver in the film! And when I'm getting difficulties with their rep. table! I mean how come they using the same for all black and white film? It's against all low of physics! More silver the more correction you must have and that' it!

So why not the Chinese. A friend of mine brought shanghai a couple days ago and he going to try! see what's happening!

Now the other thing Forte and Agfa wasn't really cheap Forte had a lower price do to producing film in Hugary is cheaper do to the lower cost of the manpower need it to manufacture. The base and the silver and the paper cost as much for them as Ilfords or Kodaks! not a buck cheaper! But I have put up one image made on Forte just look at it! I never got anything like it on Ilford at all! It doesn't matter how I try!

I will get kodak if my stock of Forte goes! At least I know what that is but it's not the same either as it where!

 

[jstraw]

Ilford is not that good quality as you think it is! Believe me!

No!

 

[Matt5791]

Ilford is in better shape financially than any other manufacturer, except for Kentmere of course who are just in amazing shape for any company, full stop (I've checked the accounts, available to anyone via the Companies house website).

Lets hope they stay that way.

 

[uraniumnitrate]

Ilford is in better shape financially than any other manufacturer, except for Kentmere of course who are just in amazing shape for any company, full stop (I've checked the accounts, available to anyone via the Companies house website).

Lets hope they stay that way.

I brought Kentmere and I'm going to try! I hope it's a fine paper!

 

[pentaxuser]

uraniumnitrate.

I assume that you must be a major customer of Forte for you to be sent a personal letter on its closure.

In other words are you a wholesaler of the product or at least a major customer in some other way? Otherwise if you are a normal retail customer and there are thousands of those then I can't work out why you got a personal letter. I and many on this site are retail customers of Ilford, Fuji etc but we wouldn't get a personal letter telling us of Ilford's or Fuji's closure.

I think it reasonable to assume that other major wholesale customers will have been sent the same letter as you received. Such customers include, I believe, Silverprint and possibly Retrographic in the U.K. so we might see confirmation from say Silverprint or another source.

You seem to be known to Forte and from what I can gather your native language isn't English and yet Forte has decided to write to you in English.

It may be of course that your native language is one that Forte does not have a translator for and that's why it has written in English.

I has assumed that your language was Hungarian and that Hungary was your country of orgin but these are of course assumptions on my part.

So just out of curiosity: 1.What is your customer status with Forte?
2.In which country do you live?
3.What is your native language?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[jeroldharter]

About a year ago, when I was getting back into B&W photography, I did a blind printing and found that I preferred Kodak Polymax among many alternatives. Not long after that, Kodak quit manufacturing paper.

Since then I have been looking for alternatives and settled on Kentmere VC and Forte Polywarmtone. Now Forte (apparently) is dropping out.

I wish I liked Ilford papers better but I don't seem to have a feel for them. Maybe I should work with them some more so that I don't have to deal with the market changes.

 

[Fotohuis]

As far we are informed by our international contacts it seems to be that Forte is closing down their factory at the end of this month. The only thing which is missing is an official press release from the factory itself. We will see in the near future what is really happening.

Further I can not give any comments.

Best regards,

Robert

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Since then I have been looking for alternatives and settled on Kentmere VC and Forte Polywarmtone. Now Forte (apparently) is dropping out.

I wish I liked Ilford papers better but I don't seem to have a feel for them. Maybe I should work with them some more so that I don't have to deal with the market changes.

I've just discovered Forte Polywarmtone and I love it, so either I'm going to hoard some of it (I don't do a lot of WT anyway) or just forget about it. The thing that bugs me with Ilford WT is that it does not have that "crazy", very wild warm tone. It's more muted, more quiet.

I wish Ilford would launch an Expressive line: papers with strong characters that are jacks of one trade, not many. I still like their RC a lot because it's so neutral: after all, I use RC for proofing, so something plain is more useful.

 

[uraniumnitrate]

As far we are informed by our international contacts it seems to be that Forte is closing down their factory at the end of this month. The only thing which is missing is an official press release from the factory itself. We will see in the near future what is really happening.

Further I can not give any comments.

Best regards,

Robert

It's not gonna be any press release! Simple all dealers going to get the same letter than I'm. It's just so that have good friends downthere and I got it first.
And 3 of those have a name in the letter! Probobly others going to look after other brands to repack!

 

[highpeak]

I just found out Fortezo grade 3 and it's the best paper I have been used so far. Guess it's time to stock up again.

Hope what Mr. Nitre said is not true.

Alex W.

 

[uraniumnitrate]

uraniumnitrate.

I assume that you must be a major customer of Forte for you to be sent a personal letter on its closure.

In other words are you a wholesaler of the product or at least a major customer in some other way? Otherwise if you are a normal retail customer and there are thousands of those then I can't work out why you got a personal letter. I and many on this site are retail customers of Ilford, Fuji etc but we wouldn't get a personal letter telling us of Ilford's or Fuji's closure.

I think it reasonable to assume that other major wholesale customers will have been sent the same letter as you received. Such customers include, I believe, Silverprint and possibly Retrographic in the U.K. so we might see confirmation from say Silverprint or another source.

You seem to be known to Forte and from what I can gather your native language isn't English and yet Forte has decided to write to you in English.

It may be of course that your native language is one that Forte does not have a translator for and that's why it has written in English.

I has assumed that your language was Hungarian and that Hungary was your country of orgin but these are of course assumptions on my part.

So just out of curiosity: 1.What is your customer status with Forte?
2.In which country do you live?
3.What is your native language?

Thanks

pentaxuser

It's a standard letter and all gonna get it sooner or lather! There is still order in which must be produced but the company not coat any longer and won't take any new order if... not some big investor step in and save the company at the last minit or so!

Maybe we should! If everybody get's something we can own our own company! Nice idea ha? How many people in this site seventeen thousend? Well it's a huge amount of money! I think we could buy it cheap!

Well anyway the company just cut and pack and deliver of thse orders they have! As I told here before the repack type won't tell you anything either they just dissapere or to busy to find something to pack! Like bad russian or chinese film for the same price!
Do to my position I will not tell you whom going to be effect by this!

to answer your questions

1. no comment
2. Sweden
3. German

 

[uraniumnitrate]

I just found out Fortezo grade 3 and it's the best paper I have been used so far. Guess it's time to stock up again.

Hope what Mr. Nitre said is not true.

Alex W.

Sorry to admit but it is! it's a third time I'm loosing my favorite material!

 

[Sal Santamaura]

When I'm talking about quality I'm talking about what a film can do in different light situations! now I know that If one film does not work in the conditoins I have here in the north than there is no silver in the film! And when I'm getting difficulties with their rep. table! I mean how come they using the same for all black and white film? It's against all low of physics! More silver the more correction you must have and that' it!
...I will get kodak if my stock of Forte goes!...

Reciprocity performance, as well as other emulsion characteristics, appears not directly related to silver content. That's my observation with T-Max, which is reputed to have less silver than conventional-grain films, and the stated position of other posters (such as Ron Mowery) who possess real knowledge of this subject.

Ilford's documentation is obsolete and thin in areas. As a company still getting up to full speed after reorganization following receivership, I'll cut it some slack on that score. Kodak, which had the most extensive and reliable product support documentation in the industry, also suffers from lack of attention to those data sheets now. Kodak reciprocity information is out of date at least since its film production was relocated.

Should you be interested in accurate reciprocity data for many current films, I suggest reviewing work published by Howard Bond in the July/August 2003 issue of Photo Techniques magazine (Voume 24, No. 4). Among the products he tested, Ilford Delta 100 performed exceedingly well, a result not consistent with your allegation that lack of silver degrades this parameter.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Reciprocity performance, as well as other emulsion characteristics, appears not directly related to silver content.

Ilford's documentation is obsolete and thin in areas. As a company still getting up to full speed after reorganization following receivership, I'll cut it some slack on that score. Kodak, which had the most extensive and reliable product support documentation in the industry, also suffers from lack of attention to those data sheets now.

For the former, yes, of course, anyone who knows anything about the subject would agree with you that the correlation, if it exists at all any more, is slender to vanishing point.

For the latter, I fear we shall never see the level of tech support that we used to take for granted, from Ilford, Kodak or anyone else. A combination of declining markets and brain-dead bean-counters will ensure this.

Cheers,

R

 

[Photo Engineer]

See my 'doom and gloom post'.

Everyone is talking about the Kodak sale of medical imaging but missed the fact that they are laying off 500 workers immediately due to a sharp drop in analog film sales. Another 2000 are expected to go this year.

They are selling 3 buildings related to analog products.

PE

 

[lightranger]

No!

I think Ilford may be our only hope. I have never really liked using their paper because it doesn't tone very well. I wish they would address that flaw in their papers. Kodak Fine Art paper was an excellent paper to work with. Kodak's quality control was unmatched in the industry. I could open a box of Kodak and make the same print a year later with no worry about film speed or contrast change. I am certain that Ilford products are consistence with their quality also. As photographers we need to communicate with the companies like Ilford and tell them we will support their product if they make the investment to advance the materials we need to do our work.

 

[uraniumnitrate]

Reciprocity performance, as well as other emulsion characteristics, appears not directly related to silver content. That's my observation with T-Max, which is reputed to have less silver than conventional-grain films, and the stated position of other posters (such as Ron Mowery) who possess real knowledge of this subject.

Ilford's documentation is obsolete and thin in areas. As a company still getting up to full speed after reorganization following receivership, I'll cut it some slack on that score. Kodak, which had the most extensive and reliable product support documentation in the industry, also suffers from lack of attention to those data sheets now. Kodak reciprocity information is out of date at least since its film production was relocated.

Should you be interested in accurate reciprocity data for many current films, I suggest reviewing work published by Howard Bond in the July/August 2003 issue of Photo Techniques magazine (Voume 24, No. 4). Among the products he tested, Ilford Delta 100 performed exceedingly well, a result not consistent with your allegation that lack of silver degrades this parameter.

Now do you know how that one works or you just based this on you own observations! Have you ever heard about mr Schwartschild? And the teory of his and so on? It's just so that film which have higher silver content have better contrast in the shadow aria and I have during a long period (6 moths) shadows in this country! Of course other factors would play in like the lens factor.

 

[uraniumnitrate]

See my 'doom and gloom post'.

Everyone is talking about the Kodak sale of medical imaging but missed the fact that they are laying off 500 workers immediately due to a sharp drop in analog film sales. Another 2000 are expected to go this year.

They are selling 3 buildings related to analog products.

PE

As I stated earlier Kodak did a right thing! In this country there is isn't any institution uses film based X-ray units any longer except some 65 years old dentists whom not going to be around for a long time!! It's all digital.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Nitrate;

Please read my post again.

Kodak has experienced a very sharp unexpected drop in analog sales and has had to lay off 500 people. Read the post I made elsewhere.

PE

 

[uraniumnitrate]

Nitrate;

Please read my post again.

Kodak has experienced a very sharp unexpected drop in analog sales and has had to lay off 500 people. Read the post I made elsewhere.

PE

Again? I haven't read it yet but I would if I could find it! Which thread?

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Now do you know how that one works or you just base this on you own observations! Have you ever heard about mr Schwartschild? And the teory of his?

Howard's table is based on his own empirical testing. His methods appear sufficiently rigorous for this investigation and I've successfully used his results.

My familiarity with reciprocity failure / reciprocity departure is complete from a working photographic viewpoint. I'd not previously heard of Mr. Schwartschild but, after searching the Internet, his "theory" seems to be a statement of that well known phenomenon, i.e. linear reciprocal time/intensity relationships break down at very short and very long exposure times. The only persons who seem to be referencing Mr. Schwartschild (here and on other forums) are you and a Peter Leyssens. If there's more to Schwartschild than that, please let us know.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I think Ilford may be our only hope...

I've recently come to that conclusion too. Not to discount Kentmere, but it doesn't make film.

...As photographers we need to communicate with the companies like Ilford and tell them we will support their product if they make the investment to advance the materials we need to do our work.

I disagree; such a demand is unrealistically greedy. We need to support them by buying their existing products. If, in the face of ongoing market contractions, they survive and maintain sufficient profitability, any advancement in the materials that becomes possible will be a bonus. Current materials are already at a high level.

 

[Uncle Bill]

I am starting to become a skeptic when people come out with corporate announcements when the person posting said information hides behind an online alias. It comes down to transparency, I don't know you, what your line of business is and where you fit in the scheme of things.

I am going to wait for Mirko from Fotoimpex to weigh in since he sources his Classicpan film through Forte.

PS Ilford film rocks especially HP5 and FP4.