Formalin question

[What About Bob]

Soon I will be stabilizing some old film using the old process involving formalin. When getting to this stage should I remove the film from the reel while doing this last step? Will formaldehyde affect plastic reels in any way? I did buy an extra Pyrex glass cup in case I end up having to dunk the film in this last step I'm just trying to think of what to use to move the film around without it sticking to itself and scratching it. I will be using nitrile gloves but I still want to keep any touching to a minimum. This formalin will only be used for these older films and then I will be done with it. These are rolls from around 1995/1996.

Thanks

 

[Mick Fagan]

When doing C41 the last bath is/was the one with Formalin, I used 500ml in a 1 litre plastic kitchen measuring jug. I pulled the reel apart, then tipped the film into the solution then gently rocked things until time to pull out and hang up.

Initially I left the film on the reel, but over a short time frame the reels started to get excessive gunk, requiring lots of cleaning. Once I separated the film from the reels for the last bath, excessive gunk became a distant memory.

 

[mshchem]

Last time I remember formalin being essential was process E3 and E4 (probably C-22 too) emulsion was so soft it would come off extremely easily.

Avoid formalin if you can.

 

[What About Bob]

@Mick Fagan: I'll take the film off the reel and use the Pyrex measuring cup or some other container Being that this is 120 film there won't be that much to rock back and forth. I remember others saying photo-flo caused gunkiness also. I am very thorough with cleaning tanks and reels.

@mshchem: Not long I bought the tiniest amount as a possible, 30ml bottle of 37% formaldehyde, from a kids science store out of all places. I was reading where PE mentioned that older films, before the year 2000 or so needed this bath to prevent the couplers from degrading. I remember using this stuff in the old C-41 kits Kodak made in the early 90s that came in those silver foiled packs. There is a recipe for the last bath containing the formalin with photo-flo. The Kodak version also contained methanol, it was 12%. The stuff I have does also, 11%. Must be a preservative.

 

[mshchem]

IIRC formaldehyde was used as a hardener, way back. Tropical development (black and white film) in hot weather. I've always associated formalin with the good (very old) days. I used formalin fixer in the 70's with 100°F processing of Ektacolor Professional Fiber base color paper. Required to harden the emulsion.

Hard to beat formalin for hardening and preserving the gelatin.

 

[MattKing]

Are you looking to re-stabilize film because you need to re-wash it?
Do you have reason to believe that the film involved was not properly stabilized in the past?
In other words, why do you need to do this?

 

[What About Bob]

Are you looking to re-stabilize film because you need to re-wash it?
Do you have reason to believe that the film involved was not properly stabilized in the past?
In other words, why do you need to do this?

This is exposed, not yet developed, C-41 film that was found not long ago in storage. Film dates back to around 1995 / 1996 when I was a student at Hallmark.

Along with the C-41 film is a few rolls of PMC 400, VPS 160 and there is also a few E-6 Ektachrome 100s, T-Max CN 400 and one roll of Plus-X pan 125.

I looked up on developing older C-41 film to see if anything special may be needed before I proceeded with developing and I came across some past posts by Photo Engineer outlining the use of the older stabilizer bath. i am currently using Kodak's C-41 kit that just came back and will be using this for developing the old films.

I should have mentioned the part about the film not being developed yet. These are mystery films. Developing these will be like Christmas in September. The C-41 films at least.

 

[MattKing]

In that case, just add some formalin to the Kodak Final Rinse (or similar) that you would be using anyways.
How much?
See the end of Photo Engineer's 1st post in that Sticky thread, found here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...-hope-on-color-stabilzers.89149/#post-1191872

 

[What About Bob]

In that case, just add some formalin to the Kodak Final Rinse (or similar) that you would be using anyways.
How much?
See the end of Photo Engineer's 1st post in that Sticky thread, found here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...-hope-on-color-stabilzers.89149/#post-1191872

Thanks for the link, Matt. That's the one I have bookmarked.

I can't wait to see what is on these rolls. No idea why they weren't processed.

 

[mshchem]

Keep us posted!! I look forward to seeing your pictures. I remember I found a roll of Tri-X 15 or so years after college. I developed it, had a bit of fog but still made decent prints.

Sounds like a fun project!

 

[koraks]

IIRC formaldehyde was used as a hardener, way back.

Also as a dye stabilizer. That's its primary function in the context of this thread.

 

[What About Bob]

3 to 10ml formalin per liter. PE went with 10ml to err on the safe side. Something is telling me 10ml may be a little overkill. I calculate about 7 rolls total of C-41 film that I will be souping. Would this 10ml formalin measurement depend on the amount of rolls processed?

@MattKing: If the formalin can be added to the final rinse that is made up all ready then I can save an extra solution with photo-flo to make up.

 

[MattKing]

I don't know of any reason why you couldn't add the formalin to Final Rinse - in fact I would recommend it, because that would remove the question about whether to use them separately, and in which order. They probably both need to be last.
I don't think I'd want to have the formalin infused mixture hanging around afterwards - but it may not be a concern.

 

[What About Bob]

My C-41 developer looks like ginger ale. It was kept full in a glass bottle for about a week. Two films went through it so far

Has a tinge of red and is darker than the last time I used it.

 

[mshchem]

My C-41 developer looks like ginger ale. It was kept full in a glass bottle for about a week. Two films went through it so far

Has a tinge of red and is darker than the last time I used it.

Should be okay. It will definitely get darker with use.

 

[What About Bob]

This is what it looks like.

 

[What About Bob]

Should be okay. It will definitely get darker with use.

Ok. i will give it run. I will be developing the first old film. My guess there will be a limit with this batch. Old films might make it darken quicker?

 

[What About Bob]

The first one developed was the T-Max 400CN film. Looks like one of my old cats is on this and a church?

Sometimes I type too fast.

 

[What About Bob]

The VPS film is jamming. I cannot load this on a fresh plastic or even a stainless reel. I think I am slowly damaging this film.

Got it finally. Using stainless for this run.

 

[Mick Fagan]

For what it's worth, my C41 Stabiliser bath, which I started using about 30-33 years ago is this:

400ml water

37% Formaldehyde 1.5ml

Wetting Agent 6ml

Water to 500ml

 

[What About Bob]

For what it's worth, my C41 Stabiliser bath, which I started using about 30-33 years ago is this:

400ml water

37% Formaldehyde 1.5ml

Wetting Agent 6ml

Water to 500ml

Thanks Mick.

I just saw your post now. I was using 2ml per liter. I'll mix up a new batch tomorrow with your measurements. Think I should give a redunk?

 

[What About Bob]

The VPS 160 film is fogged, very brown but there are images on it. Looks like some outdoor scenic, part of a tree?, and some weird looking object that looks very blurry like I was trying to keep steady but couldn't. I was probably drunk.

The first film, T-Max 400 CN, looks a heck of a lot clearer than the VPS does.

Update - VPS film is fogged and blue when I shined a flashlight on it.

 

[mshchem]

Sounds like a reasonably successful session. Getting anything from ancient film is a win!

Now I want a tiny bit of formalin to play with. Can be used to make silvered (mirror like) prints, a little goes a long way. The old Halochrome stuff.

Anyway congratulations on your project.

 

[What About Bob]

Thanks @mshchem

I will continue tomorrow with this. I might need to change to fresh chemistry soon.

I got the formalin from an online home science store for kids. They sell all kinds of goodies.

 

[Romanko]

Also as a dye stabilizer. That's its primary function in the context of this thread.

Also as a fungicide.