Fomapan R100 not developed as reversal

IloveTLRs · Jun 17, 2013

Hello everyone,

I have a question, if I may trouble everyone. I have a chance to get a large bulk roll of Fomapan R100, which is reversal black and white. Long story short, I would be developing it in ID-11, not as reversal.

I did a lot of digging and reading around the internet (what little info there is) and have seen mixed results on this. It seems 50-50: some people say forget it (anti halation won't come off), and others say it's possible - with D19 or even Rodinal, but dense negatives.

Does anyone here have experience with it? Would you say forget it and go with a regular B&W film?

Thanks in advance!

johnielvis · Jun 17, 2013

it should work fine. Try exposing at 100 and giving very very little development compared to the reversal development specs. Use a "regular strength" developer for a normal amount of time. Even at that, they may look overexposed, if so, you just rate it at 200 or 400...best to shoot a roll at 100, 200, 400 and develop and see what you get. all too dark? lower the development time. Stay away from the powerful high contrast developers used for reversal.

johnielvis · Jun 18, 2013

Right--that silver layer--right. I thought there was a normal remjet backing but now I see that it's not a backing that can be removed, but a layer of silver that can only be removed in the bleaching step. Yes, that will effectively "blacken" anything until it's bleached so any negative image will not be visible.

IloveTLRs · Jun 18, 2013

Thanks for the replies.

Is the remjet layer anything like the one on Kodachrome 64?

railwayman3 · Jun 18, 2013

IloveTLRs said:
Thanks for the replies.

Is the remjet layer anything like the one on Kodachrome 64?

Data Sheets - R100 - Dead Link Removed
K64 - http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/pdf/e88.pdf

The anti-halation layer in R100 is between emulsion and base, and is removed by the process chemicals. The Kodachrome layer was on the back of the film and (IIRC?) was physically removed in the processing machine. (All googleable if you need more info. )

IloveTLRs · Jun 18, 2013

Thanks again!

I remember removing KR64's remjet layer with a sponge. I was hoping I could do the same with R100 but it seems impossible. Too bad.

cmacd123 · Jun 18, 2013

It is supposed to be a silver layer which will be removed by the bleach in the reversal process. One data sheet indicated that it COULD be developed as a neg, so their may be two versions out there.

IloveTLRs · Jun 19, 2013

Interesting. I originally found Freestyle's entry on it here: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/411813-Foma-Fomapan-R100-Bandamp-W-Reversal-Film-35mm-x-36-exp.

Where they say:

Can be developed in standard black and white chemicals to get a negative but film optimized for slide process

Note that I wasn't ordering from Freestyle, so I don't want to point the finger at anyone. With some further Googling I found a few forum posts around the web where people said it could be done. Hence my confusion, and I suppose it is possible there are different versions. In the end I decided to cancel my order and go with a "regular" black and white film.

Edit: Here is a thread on photo.net discussing it: http://photo.net/black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/00Szgi

railwayman3 · Jun 19, 2013

cmacd123 said:
It is supposed to be a silver layer which will be removed by the bleach in the reversal process. One data sheet indicated that it COULD be developed as a neg, so their may be two versions out there.

Thinking about it, IIRC, there some postings last year that Foma had issues with supply of film base, or similar, which led to some products being revised or reformulated? Maybe there is more than one version....I haven't time right now, but will try to check it out later. (I've used R100 as a reversal film, with good results, so am interested in this).

Stikka · Aug 1, 2017

I was racking my brain about this and it finally came to me a couple of weeks ago, and I just tried it out.

First, bleach (I used C-41 bleach) this removes the anti-halation layer but leaves the latent image alone, as it has not been developed yet.
Rinse
Develop
Fix

Enjoy negativity

Jeremy Saint-Peyre · Apr 10, 2018

Stikka said:
I was racking my brain about this and it finally came to me a couple of weeks ago, and I just tried it out.

First, bleach (I used C-41 bleach) this removes the anti-halation layer but leaves the latent image alone, as it has not been developed yet.
Rinse
Develop
Fix

Enjoy negativity

Hello Stikka,

I have some leftover of Moersh Copper Bleach for lith printing, do you think it could work with R100 to get a negative ? It is rehalogening so i guess not :
https://www.macodirect.de/en/chemis...ch-copper-bleach-for-lith-redevelopment-500ml

What about a ferricyanide/potassium bromide bleacher ?

Which C-41 Bleach did you use ?

Thanks a lot !

Jeremy

flavio81 · Apr 10, 2018

IloveTLRs said:
Hello everyone,

I have a question, if I may trouble everyone. I have a chance to get a large bulk roll of Fomapan R100, which is reversal black and white. Long story short, I would be developing it in ID-11, not as reversal.

Fomapan R100 uses, as anti-halation device, some silver particles that are suspended near the emulsion. They are removed as part of the reversal process. A regular B/W neg process won't remove them thus the negative would be unusable.

flavio81 · Apr 10, 2018

Jeremy Saint-Peyre said:
What about a ferricyanide/potassium bromide bleacher ?

Which C-41 Bleach did you use ?

If you are going to source a bleach, why not get a B/W reversal bleach (i.e. dichromate bleach) and do the traditional BW reversal?

Jeremy Saint-Peyre · Apr 10, 2018

I have a shitload of dichromat at the lab, i don't want to use it, toxicity and environmental reasons. If i can get rid of the anti halation layer with a bleach without affecting the negative, i'll proceed with regular black and white negative process : cheaper, faster, lots of greys to work on after digitalisation. Plus, dichromat are forbidden in Eropean Union, it's our old stock.

Stikka seems to have worked out a solution so i'm waiting for his answer.

studiocarter · Apr 11, 2018

Bleach first worked. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...&set=oa.2074259722819089&type=3&theater&ifg=1
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...&set=oa.2074259722819089&type=3&theater&ifg=1

Jeremy Saint-Peyre · Apr 11, 2018

Thank StudioCarter, i'll try with this bleach : http://www.filmlabs.org/docs/citric-hydrogen-peroxide-bleach.pdf

Going to purchase 135 100R film in the week end and i'll keep you updated.

Jeremy

studiocarter · Apr 11, 2018

Permangate bleach is used with the Foma developing kit. It worked fine for me. Here is a thread to help use it.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...nate-bleach-for-reversal.154941/#post-2046977

studiocarter · Apr 11, 2018

Fomapan R100 bleached first developed to negative second

studiocarter · Apr 12, 2018

Stikka said:
I was racking my brain about this and it finally came to me a couple of weeks ago, and I just tried it out.

First, bleach (I used C-41 bleach) this removes the anti-halation layer but leaves the latent image alone, as it has not been developed yet.
Rinse
Develop
Fix

Enjoy negativity

Thanks

Jeremy Saint-Peyre · Sep 11, 2018

studiocarter said:
View attachment 198688 Fomapan R100 bleached first developed to negative second

Very nice ! So you used the Foma bleach (dichromate based according to http://www.foma.cz/en/fomapan-R-100) first then processed as normal negative film (dev/stop/fix/wash) ?

Or mixed your own Permanganate bleach ? If so, with sulfuric acid ? In with dilution, time, tmps, etc ?

Thanks very much, the hydrogen peroxyde and citric acid isnt very conclusive yet (bleach incomplete, stain on film) i think it's because my citric acid is industrial, i'm going to try with lemon juice soon.

Jérémy

studiocarter · Sep 11, 2018

They both work but the neg used dichromate bleach

irivlin · Oct 20, 2018

Stikka said:
I was racking my brain about this and it finally came to me a couple of weeks ago, and I just tried it out.

First, bleach (I used C-41 bleach) this removes the anti-halation layer but leaves the latent image alone, as it has not been developed yet.
Rinse
Develop
Fix

Enjoy negativity

Why could I not develop, then use C41 bleach, then fix? (Or, if using a C41 press kit, 1) Develop, 2) Use C41 bleach fix?
Incidentally, would a standard Tetenal "Three bath E6 kit" process Fomopan-R as a normal appearing black and white reversal photograph? (The kit has just there chemicals:- "First developer", "Colour developer" and "Bleach fix". No need for re-exposure during any of the steps.
Hope to hear back from you.
Thank you,
Ian
On photo.net as irivlin

irivlin · Oct 20, 2018

Typo alert...
Meant to say "THREE" chemicals, not "THERE" chemicals...

irivlin · Oct 20, 2018

studiocarter said:
View attachment 198688 Fomapan R100 bleached first developed to negative second

Hope I don't offend but the negatives look *ultra* grainy. Is this how they will always turn out with this process?
When I've used the Fomopan development kit, the grain and gamma was very pleasing.
Ian

studiocarter · Oct 21, 2018

If bleach is after developer, the neg image is bleached away unless a very short time is used

Fomapan R100 not developed as reversal

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