Fomapan 100 at iso 25

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RoboRepublic

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Hi folks,
Looks like I blundered a fairly important 5x7 portrait by forgetting to stop down my lens before taking the final shot. I know the datasheet from foma says that it handles one stop of over exposure well- but it seems that I over exposed by two stops. I was just curious if folks had an opinion on how to process the negative, or if foma100 can handle this much light (therefore I should process it normally)

Thanks!
 

MattKing

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What sort of lighting was involved (contrast and character)?
 

revdoc

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TheFlyingCamera is right - it's a 50 ISO film. You'll be fine.
 

summicron1

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I would cut the developing a bit -- 10 percent sounds about right as a kentucky windage sort of guess -- the worst that can happen is you'll have better shadow detail than you planned on.
 

koraks

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Foma 100 does absolutely fine at 25. I've done it multiple times. You can either develop a bit shorter, or don't even bother with it and develop normally. As summicron1 says, shadow detail will be excellent. With reduced development, you'll have quite nice negatives with good linearity that will print very nicely on a somewhat higher contrast grade. A very successful combination, particularly for high dynamic range scenes.
 

Adrian Bacon

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Hi folks,
Looks like I blundered a fairly important 5x7 portrait by forgetting to stop down my lens before taking the final shot. I know the datasheet from foma says that it handles one stop of over exposure well- but it seems that I over exposed by two stops. I was just curious if folks had an opinion on how to process the negative, or if foma100 can handle this much light (therefore I should process it normally)

Thanks!

It's not the end of the world, though Foma 100 doesn't have the worlds best anti-halation, so depending on how much contrast your scene had, the highlights might start to bloom a tiny bit, but other than that, worst case scenario is you'll have more shadow details than you normally would.
 
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RoboRepublic

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@MattKing Overcast light from a sliding window door, coming into an otherwise dark room. I had a small blanket for a reflector. On the subjects darkened side.

@koraks Are you and @summicron1 in agreement on the 10% reduction? I'm developing in dd-x or rodinal.

Thanks everyone in your combined effort to still my racing heart!
 

koraks

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@koraks Are you and @summicron1 in agreement on the 10% reduction? I'm developing in dd-x or rodinal.
10% isn't much of a difference, but it will work. I'd personally go for something like -25%. But like I said, you'll get fine results either way. There will be a difference in the contrast grade you want to print the resulting negatives with.
 
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RoboRepublic

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10% isn't much of a difference, but it will work. I'd personally go for something like -25%. But like I said, you'll get fine results either way. There will be a difference in the contrast grade you want to print the resulting negatives with.
Thanks! I don't print my work (yet!) I usually just bring it into digital after I develop the negative. Ideally flexible tonality in negative is best.
 

albireo

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You'll be fine.

Foma 100 is a brilliant true 100ISO film in most developers recommended by the manufacturer, but you'll get good results overexposing by 1-2 stops too IME. It will depend a lot on your metering and developer of course. In my experience, D76/ID11 for example doesn't fully exploit Foma film speed so if you have some kicking around it might actually be quite appropriate for this specific EI 25 set.

Hi folks,
Looks like I blundered a fairly important 5x7 portrait by forgetting to stop down my lens before taking the final shot. I know the datasheet from foma says that it handles one stop of over exposure well- but it seems that I over exposed by two stops. I was just curious if folks had an opinion on how to process the negative, or if foma100 can handle this much light (therefore I should process it normally)

Thanks!
 

138S

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but it seems that I over exposed by two stops. I was just curious if folks had an opinion on how to process the negative, or if foma100 can handle this much light (therefore I should process it normally)

Probably you will get a better negative than if you had exposed at box speed.

First, as stated, Foma 100 box speed is a bit inflated, if not an stop at leat half, datasheet suggests that calibration was made with an speed gaining developer and with some overdevelopment which boosts speed a bit compared to more regular ratings.

ISO norm to rate speed allows to use any developer for the rating, but that overdevelopment in the manufacturer's rating test a bit arbitrary.

Second, overexposing a bit negative film is not bad usually, the ISO speed tells you the minimum exposure you should use to still have some detail in those shadows that (spot meter) are at -3, so you can use an acceptable shutter speed. Until 1960 the same film was rated 1 stop slower as a "safety factor" for incorrect exposures, or variability in the metering methods mostly to prevent shadows being clipped.

If your scenes have strong highlights you want to preserve (or to print easy in the darkroom) then a plain general overexposure may damage those highlights, in that case you perform an N- development, you reduce development time to not allow the highlights reach insanely high densities while shadows will mostly be developed the same. In that case your negative will have less contrast but you address that in the printin by using a more contrasty paper or (in the hybrid) adjusting the curve in Photoshop.

To clear your doubts, I'd suggest you spend test roll (or some frames) making bracketings, shooting a test scense from -1 to +3, and spot metering key areas in the scene to know the local under-over exposure.

With negative film, no much problem with overexposure... underexposure is a way worse problem. With slides it's the counter, you easily burn highlights so it's good to spot meter highlights to know if something is to be toasted.
 
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DeletedAcct1

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Hi folks,
Looks like I blundered a fairly important 5x7 portrait by forgetting to stop down my lens before taking the final shot. I know the datasheet from foma says that it handles one stop of over exposure well- but it seems that I over exposed by two stops. I was just curious if folks had an opinion on how to process the negative, or if foma100 can handle this much light (therefore I should process it normally)

Thanks!
Assuming that you are going to use Kodak d76, here there is the graph:
Cattura.JPG

As you can see, to reach 25 iso you have to develop for about 1minute or less, to mantain a lambda of 0,6.
 

138S

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Assuming that you are going to use Kodak d76, here there is the graph:
View attachment 258478
As you can see, to reach 25 iso you have to develop for about 1minute or less, to mantain a lambda of 0,6.

Sorry, but I don't understand the reasoning you make from those graphs...

Not understanding the text, but IMO those graphs are not to show a ISO variability from development: a film with a certain developer/processing has a fixed ISO, you can shot it a different EI, but "ISO" won't change. The ISO imposes a development time to get that 0,6.

IMO it tells the developer CI characteristics when processing film of a certain native ISO, but not an ISO change depending on development. You don't "reach an ISO", the ISO is an input parameter, not a value you discover in the graph.
 

koraks

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As you can see, to reach 25 iso you have to develop for about 1minute or less, to mantain a lambda of 0,6.
Around 1m30 at 30C...a much more reasonable time at the more common 20C. But like I said: only a modest reduction in development will yield good negatives. I used mostly pyrocat and later mytol/xtol for this.
 

DeletedAcct1

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Sorry, but I don't understand the reasoning you make from those graphs...

Not understanding the text, but IMO those graphs are not to show a ISO variability from development: a film with a certain developer/processing has a fixed ISO, you can shot it a different EI, but "ISO" won't change. The ISO imposes a development time to get that 0,6.
Why on the vertical axis (Y) there's written ISO (in degrees °) and not EI?
Notice the rather high b+f with D76.
 
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138S

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Why on the vertical axis (Y) there's written ISO (in degrees °) and not EI?
Notice the rather high b+f with D76.

ISO speed imposes fixed a 0.8/1.3 = 0.62 gradient, not another one !!!! It has to be 0.62, other gradients are not valid for ISO Speed.

"m" is the ISO (initial) "speed point", "n" is x20 more exposure than the speed point. Meters aim x10 more light exposure than in the m speed point, so 3.33 stops more light.

540px-ISO6speedMethod.png





IMO, the graph you posted shows the developer activity depending on the real film ISO, a lower ISO film has smaller crystals in the emulsion that develop faster, those graphs tell developer behaviour depending on the native ISO, not a ISO change of the film.
 

MattKing

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@MattKing Overcast light from a sliding window door, coming into an otherwise dark room. I had a small blanket for a reflector. On the subjects darkened side.
How did you meter the scene?
With that sort of lighting, you probably want to maintain contrast, so I don't think you would want to do much "pulling" of development.
 

DeletedAcct1

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ISO speed imposes fixed a 0.8/1.3 = 0.62 gradient, not another one !!!! It has to be 0.62, other gradients are not valid for ISO Speed.

"m" is the ISO (initial) "speed point", "n" is x20 more exposure than the speed point. Meters aim x10 more light exposure than in the m speed point, so 3.33 stops more light.

View attachment 258479




IMO, the graph you posted shows the developer activity depending on the real film ISO, a lower ISO film has smaller crystals in the emulsion that develop faster, those graphs tell developer behaviour depending on the native ISO, not a ISO change of the film.
Obviously the y axis on the Foma graphs refers to the speed you have to set on the camera, and not to the real film speed.
 

138S

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Obviously the y axis on the Foma graphs refers to the speed you have to set on the camera, and not to the real film speed.

Yes, you are right... we can consider "S" it is the EI, in the English datasheet it is better understood by me (https://www.digitaltruth.com/products/foma_tech/Fomapan_100.pdf) This is technically confusing because those those speeds are not ISO...


As you can see, to reach 25 iso you have to develop for about 1minute or less, to mantain a lambda of 0,6.

The weird "1min" is for 30ºC development.... ID11 and D76 share the same graphs, it is not the left for one developer and the right one for the other, each graph is for both, if we use the left one that is for 20ºC... (the right one is for 30ºC)

Then with D-76 we obtain around ISO 80 for a ISO Standard (gradient) development. (Showed in red) if trusting the graph.

They also say you have to develop around 6:15 min for "ISO" EI 25º (showed in green)

___tm.jpg
 
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DeletedAcct1

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Hi folks,
Looks like I blundered a fairly important 5x7 portrait by forgetting to stop down my lens before taking the final shot. I know the datasheet from foma says that it handles one stop of over exposure well- but it seems that I over exposed by two stops. I was just curious if folks had an opinion on how to process the negative, or if foma100 can handle this much light (therefore I should process it normally)

Thanks!
Anyway I'd suggest you to buy some Fomadon LQN and use as prescribed.
The use of the same manufacturer for films and developing chemistry, imho, has several benefits:
1) the chemistry is optimized and tested for films of that particular manufacturer;
2) there are official datas available on how to develop correctly a particular film - no second guessing;
3) films and chemistry of the same manufacturer yeld the very best results.

Example: Adox Silvermax plus Adox Silvermax developer, Adox Cms 20 II plus Adox Adotech III etc...
 
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RoboRepublic

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How did you meter the scene?
With that sort of lighting, you probably want to maintain contrast, so I don't think you would want to do much "pulling" of development.

I metered using the sekonic 508 incident meter, pointed towards to lens, I was out of the frame just extending my arm in. I measured for an aperture of f5.6. The exposure was ultimately taken at f4.5.

I also did a rough calculation of the bellows extension factor of 0.5 (25cm using a 21cm lens).

I think I should be okay, from hearing from others on this post, because the bellows extension and the aperture combined remove about 0.8 stops from the 2 stop over exposure.

I'm hoping I haven't got some confirmation bias in the calculation above ☺️

@Alessandro Serrao I agree with you on principal, of sticking to developer chems from the same company that produced the emulsion, but right now in practice, I have space constraints and can't stock every developer for every emulsion- I'm also no where near settling on one particular film stock, having a developer for each stock is impractical (expense, and would need to shoot way more to make sure the half open bottle doesnt oxidize). It's a trade off, I completely understand (flexibility in emulsion choice for having to guess at the dev process)

I was hoping a switch to rodinal would partially help me with this problem as it gives me a developer that is always freshly mixed and is commonly used here in this community.
 

MattKing

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I metered using the sekonic 508 incident meter, pointed towards to lens, I was out of the frame just extending my arm in. I measured for an aperture of f5.6. The exposure was ultimately taken at f4.5.
With incident metering used that way, and that sort of lighting, I would suggest you develop normally.
For future reference, in that sort of lighting situation, it might be handy to also record the effective lighting ratio - measure the light from the main source only, and then the light from the reflector only.
 

138S

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Example: Adox Silvermax plus Adox Silvermax developer, Adox Cms 20 II plus Adox Adotech III etc...

These are extreme examples, specific developers for specific films, being Adotech extremly specific to make a microfilm capable for some pictorial usage. IMO, in the case of general usage developers for general usage films there is way less a need to use the film brand's developer, for Fomapan 100 FilmDev.org contains 247 recipes made with many developers: https://filmdev.org/film/show/1034. Personally I develop Fompan with Xtol with perfect results.
 
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