Fomalux 111

[Mahler_one]

A smaller trial pack might well be available. I suggest calling MAS.

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

A smaller trial pack might well be available. I suggest calling MAS.

I just checked out their website and see that they do indeed offer a 25 sheet pack. I'll have to let a couple people who questioned me about it know! I bought 250 sheets of each grade and have a couple hundred sheets of the Test Run so personally I'm good for awhile.

 

[c6h6o3]

Grades 2 and 3 from Lodima

Yes, thank God Lodima's there but the Fomalux is $30.00 less per 100 sheet box!

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Shawn, any idea whether Fomalux exhibits the mottle in even-toned areas some have reported with grade 2 Lodima?

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

Shawn, any idea whether Fomalux exhibits the mottle in even-toned areas some have reported with grade 2 Lodima?

There was only one area of even tone in the two pictures I printed. A section of water I printed down a little under paper white in the lower right hand corner of (there was a url link here which no longer exists). The print looks smooth here. Of course being such a light area, if there were a problem, maybe it would not show?

I target my negs for "grade 3" silver chloride. I've been saving a small number of "hot" negs to print on Grade 2 Lodima but have not cracked the box yet so I cannot comment on that emulsion. My grade 3 and trial run Lodima have shown no such issues.

 

[Mahler_one]

HI Shawn:

I have been experimenting a bit in that I have developed negatives to print on both the Lodima grades. Thus far I have not seen problems with either grade, but the number of prints made is not sufficient to draw firm conclusions. No issues either with the "trial run". I believe I will most likely proceed as you intend, i.e., develop negatives to print on the Grade 3, with water bath development and the Grade 2 "held in reserve" as necessary.

I have ordered the Fomalux. Will not have the chance to use it for at least several weeks ( at least a week go get here )...but I will try to print the same negative on both grades of Lodima AND the Fomalux FB, and report to the thread. Unfortunately, I have no scanner-and no current plans to buy one!

With the Fomalux RC and the FB one might have a way to "proof" one's negatives at a very significant savings. The print exposure is apparently quite different, but at least one can use a NaCl paper and Amidol.

 

[Rick Olson]

I gave this paper an informal test today. I had some contrasty (overdeveloped) 5x7 negatives on TMY that I tried to contact print on the pre-production run of Lodima (adjusted grade 3) and thought that perhaps the new Fomalux 111 at grade 2 would offer a better (softer) print. In comparing the tonality, the Fomalux 111 grade 2 had slightly more contrast that the pre-production Lodima grade 3. As Shawn noted, the Fomalux 111 paper is much faster than Lodima. I put the contact printing gear away and thought I would try some projection prints to see if the faster speed of the Fomalux 111 would allow this. I pulled some 120 TMY-2 negatives developed (in Pyrocat-HD) for standard grade 2 paper and adjusted my 23C enlarger (using a dichroic head and diffusion chamber) to allow a 7" x 7" print on a Saunders easel. I used a Nikon 80mm 5.6 lens and stopped it down to 8.0. My times were in the 120 to 150 second range. Having used Foma papers before, I was used to some slow exposure times, so this was not a problem. The resulting prints appeared to be in a range between a conventional grade 2 and grade 3 paper. For the processing, I used Ilford WT developer, which produced a slightly warm olive tone. The tonality is beautiful and I am very happy with the prints. I plan to try this paper in Amidol and Ansco 130 to see how it performs. Looking forward to more user comments.

 

[Mahler_one]

Rick: I did some BTZS testing of the pre-production Lodima, and the new grades as well. The new Grade 3 AND the "pre-production" Grade 2 had a very similar ES on testing with the 21 Step Wedge using the MAS Amidol formula....about 1.18, untoned. The new Lodima Grade 2 had an ES of about 1.26. As you can see, neither was in the ANSI standards for the grades. However, as has been stated numerous times, the ANSI grades simply provide some guidance, and one should consider testing one's materials using the conditions in one's lab. I am developing my negatives to approximate the ES values of the paper I obtained via testing...although, to be honest, since I like prints with more "punch", I tend to develop the negatives to a point that is just a bit more contrasty. So with the Grade 2 I will develop negatives to an ES of about 1.35, and for use with the Grade 3 paper, negatives will be developed to an ES of about 1.25. Please recall that MAS did tell us that the pre-production Grade 2 printed like an Azo Grade 3 in his hands. Obviously then, the NEW Lodima "Grade 3" matched the ES of the previously mentioned Grade 2. Just a matter of semantics, but those who might be guided by the designation of Grades on the box might be surprised to learn that the NEW Lodima Grade 2 acts like a conventional Grade 1 or even softer, and one really does "need" negatives that are more dense. I will try to find the time and inclination to test the new Fomalux FB Grade 2 to see where the paper fits into the ANSI scheme. However, by your comments it might well be that the new Fomalux Grade 2 approximates an ANSI Grade 2, and could be more "true to grade". Thus, I much appreciate the information you supplied Rick.

By the way, it might be interesting to print the negatives you alluded to on the new Lodima Grade 2.....I would guess that they might print quite well!

 

[mcfactor]

This is a bit strange, but I printed with the Fomalux on Friday, in ansco 130 and the paper did not look very good. It almost looked like there was grain! It looks like there is a texture to the paper, as if it were a platnium print, except that the paper is glossy. This leads me to believe it is some kind of coating error, like there was not enough emulsion on it, or something. I tried taking from different parts of the package, the front, the middle, and the back, but all sheets had the same issue. Since everyone else who has used this paper seems to like it, it must be an issue with my pack. I will try to post an example in the next day or too.

 

[Mahler_one]

MC...since the Dodgers left Brooklyn nothing has ever been the same there....}.

 

[mcfactor]

Thats what my parents keep telling me

 

[mcfactor]

Is anyone else having issues with this paper?

 

[jgjbowen]

Well one thing is for sure, Shawn's results prove it is NOT Lodima under a different brand....

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

Well one thing is for sure, Shawn's results prove it is NOT Lodima under a different brand....

Right, I don't believe they're the same. The speed and color differences have me convinced.

Color: I used 1 gram of KBr in 500ml with 1 extra gram of amidol (Chinese) as compared to the MAS version. Color was warm similar to lodima but not quite the same. I always have a hard time describing colors so I'm not going to...

After some more time to ponder the color - I'll say in my brew (and pre toner) the color was similar but different - warm but maybe slightly more olive toned. I'm not talking the old Azo green by any measure. Still predominantly warm but a HINT of the olive and after toning any sign of it was gone.

 

[Aurelien]

I don't know these papers yet, but as far as I know, harman is the easiest way to have a paper run on-demand. I guess Lodima is made by Harman, though, and Fomalux, well, you know...

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

HI Shawn:

I have been experimenting a bit in that I have developed negatives to print on both the Lodima grades. Thus far I have not seen problems with either grade, but the number of prints made is not sufficient to draw firm conclusions. No issues either with the "trial run". I believe I will most likely proceed as you intend, i.e., develop negatives to print on the Grade 3, with water bath development and the Grade 2 "held in reserve" as necessary.

I have ordered the Fomalux. Will not have the chance to use it for at least several weeks ( at least a week go get here )...but I will try to print the same negative on both grades of Lodima AND the Fomalux FB, and report to the thread. Unfortunately, I have no scanner-and no current plans to buy one!

With the Fomalux RC and the FB one might have a way to "proof" one's negatives at a very significant savings. The print exposure is apparently quite different, but at least one can use a NaCl paper and Amidol.

Thanks for the info! Looking forward to hearing what you think of the Fomalux.

I gave this paper an informal test today. I had some contrasty (overdeveloped) 5x7 negatives on TMY that I tried to contact print on the pre-production run of Lodima (adjusted grade 3) and thought that perhaps the new Fomalux 111 at grade 2 would offer a better (softer) print. In comparing the tonality, the Fomalux 111 grade 2 had slightly more contrast that the pre-production Lodima grade 3. As Shawn noted, the Fomalux 111 paper is much faster than Lodima. I put the contact printing gear away and thought I would try some projection prints to see if the faster speed of the Fomalux 111 would allow this. I pulled some 120 TMY-2 negatives developed (in Pyrocat-HD) for standard grade 2 paper and adjusted my 23C enlarger (using a dichroic head and diffusion chamber) to allow a 7" x 7" print on a Saunders easel. I used a Nikon 80mm 5.6 lens and stopped it down to 8.0. My times were in the 120 to 150 second range. Having used Foma papers before, I was used to some slow exposure times, so this was not a problem. The resulting prints appeared to be in a range between a conventional grade 2 and grade 3 paper. For the processing, I used Ilford WT developer, which produced a slightly warm olive tone. The tonality is beautiful and I am very happy with the prints. I plan to try this paper in Amidol and Ansco 130 to see how it performs. Looking forward to more user comments.

You're a patient man! Good to know it works with an enlarger. Of course at those times I'd think you'd be running into reciprocity failure and burning would become quite tedious.

Interesting your Ilford Warm Tone developer gave a slightly warm olive tone... I'd say my modified MAS brew gave a slightly olive warm tone.

 

[77seriesiii]

Well, I received my box today and went through roughly 10 sheets...it is alot faster than I thought, three were well over exposed. I'm using a 15w incandescent bulb at 36" above the contact frame. Some of my negatives are for salt prints so...a little rough for this paper. However, the other negatives came out really nice but what I think is fast. This is my first time w/ contact print paper, so lots of fun. I'm using PF Ansco 130 for developing. I will try amidol water bath techniques over the weekend.

In the end I found for what I think is a grade 2-3 negative I am getting @13-15 seconds of 'on' time with the bulb, is that normal? This gives me a print in developer (1:1 130) that I can see in 5-10 seconds and is finished in around 20 secs. To me this seems really fast. I am thinking that my negatives are a bit stronger than I thought, is that normal, the times I listed? I'm going to pull out other negatives and see what happens.

thanks

erick

 

[DanielStone]

erick,

you can always just RAISE THE LIGHT to increase printing times, or put a piece of diffusion over the light to soften it a bit. 15w, really? I know people who are using a 300w bulb, but they might have more b+f than your negs have. who knows?

-Dan

 

[77seriesiii]

Dan,

15w? Really? That is exactly what is going on in my head! makes no sense.

I've read the azo forums, folks there using 300w and having enough time to dodge/burn if needed. I try a 75w bulb and in the developer, I saw the image come up and I didnt have enough time to pull it out of the developer and get it in the fix before it went black. I started at 22", which seemed normal from what others were saying and have creeped it upwards and dropped the wattage. I'm not upset, just scratching my head and talking to myself (which btw freaks out other people in a darkroom, because I not only talk to myself but actually have conversations, just something to think about ) I'm trying work out what I'm doing that is different. I do have LED red lights, i need to test the paper and lights, havent done that yet but on prints that come up, whites are white (checked w/ a wedge)....so? Again lots of head scratching and talking to myself in teh darkroom.

Developer when it gets old should weaken a bit and I have diluted it, maybe go with a 1:2 ratio and see what happens. I have an amidol mix from PF but before I mix it up I really want to nail it down with the PF ansco 130.

./e

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

I too am surprised.... I'm using a 75 what bulb - my first two prints (there was a url link here which no longer exists) - (there was a url link here which no longer exists) were made using relatively dense negatives (though not stained, I'm using Rodinal) and printed with a 75 watt bulb with 4 paper towels clipped over it. Distance from light to glass was 18 inches.... my 3rd print (there was a url link here which no longer exists) was made using a negative that was not quite as dense and printed with 6 paper towels clipped over the bulb. I was using an amidol developer for all three.

I have used PF130 at 1:1 with silver chloride papers, though not Fomalux 111, and my developing time was 1 minute. It's usually two minutes with enlarging papers.

I have a 15 wat bulb and will do a quick test with that and PF130 and Fomalux the next time I print...

 

[Michael Kadillak]

I guess Lodima is made by Harman..

The operative word is "guess" because you really do not know the market.

The Fomalux paper is NOT Lodima. Who cares where or who produces Lodima?

It is an alternative to the loss of Azo and it took four years of hard work and much technical innovation to bring it to market.

Purchase and use it to make fine prints so we continue to have access to it.

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

It is an alternative to the loss of Azo and it took four years of hard work and much technical innovation to bring it to market.

Purchase and use it to make fine prints so we continue to have access to it.

Right on.

At this point in time I have far more experience with Lodima than Fomalux 111. While I'm thankful to have both papers around my preference, even with the price difference, is for Lodima - especially considering Lodima is available in two grades. Of course this is merely my opinion after limited use with Fomalux. As I mentioned earlier in the thread I am simply not qualified to do a scientific comparison.

As far as where Lodima is produced, well, of course I'm curious! =)

One other point of note, during my last printing session with Fomalux 111 I found that 3 of my test prints had small circular white spots - maybe two or three on each print. I was using 4x5 sheets which I had cut down from 8x10 so it is quite possible, probably likely as the 3 sheets with problems were consecutive, that the spots were all from the same 8x10 sheet.

 

[Michael Kadillak]

Right on.

At this point in time I have far more experience with Lodima than Fomalux 111. While I'm thankful to have both papers around my preference, even with the price difference, is for Lodima - especially considering Lodima is available in two grades. Of course this is merely my opinion after limited use with Fomalux. As I mentioned earlier in the thread I am simply not qualified to do a scientific comparison.

As far as where Lodima is produced, well, of course I'm curious! =)

One other point of note, during my last printing session with Fomalux 111 I found that 3 of my test prints had small circular white spots - maybe two or three on each print. I was using 4x5 sheets which I had cut down from 8x10 so it is quite possible, probably likely as the 3 sheets with problems were consecutive, that the spots were all from the same 8x10 sheet.

I hope that the paper imperfections you saw were a random occurrence. Quite honestly the Foma paper is a good thing because it potentially could translate to a broader exposure to contacting printing by people that are intrigued by the process.

In my very peripheral involvement of the project offering my assistance wherever I could to help out, I learned how complicated the process is to produce a sliver chloride paper let alone a modern quality silver chloride paper. Looking historically at this paper nearly every photographic paper manufacturer in the good old days had some form of this product in the market and as a result many formulas were developed and tweeked as a function of time. The introduction of variable contrast papers and improvements in making enlargements slowly reduced the silver chloride papers market until just Azo was left.

Where my respect for Lodima begins is where the sad story of POP ends.

POP did not have a "Michael and Paula" aligned with this product so we did not have a choice but to accept the news as the terminal condition it turned out to be. That is what makes Lodima so special.

I wish it was not as expensive as it turned out to be but when you bring a new product to the market from scratch, it is what it is. What would we all be printing with if M&P said "screw it"? Glad that we did not have to face that music.

 

[77seriesiii]

Shawn,

Thank you for trying to looking into it.

Film Developer wise: I am using pyrocat-hd 1:1:100 or if I stand developed the negative it would've been developed at 1:1:200.

./e

 

[Mahler_one]

The operative word is "guess" because you really do not know the market.

The Fomalux paper is NOT Lodima. Who cares where or who produces Lodima?

It is an alternative to the loss of Azo and it took four years of hard work and much technical innovation to bring it to market.

Purchase and use it to make fine prints so we continue to have access to it.

Michael: The price of Ilfobrom graded FB paper is not very different from the price of the Lodima paper. I agree with you about Lodima, but the reality is that there are increasing numbers of analog photographers who DO find that the cost of materials is becoming a very real issue. Hence, it is possible that Lodima paper will find decreasing use even if the Fomalux is not as good. If Fomalux were to be produced in another grade then users of such paper would learn to make their negatives so as to print better on the Fomalux paper. Moreover, the ins and outs of using the proper bulb and print exposing methods would also be honed. Fomalux would probably NEVER be "as good" as Lodima, but might present a real alternative that could decrease the use of the Lodima. Such decreased usage would be, to my mind, a very severe risk to the continuation of the Lodima paper on the market. I will NOT be switching from Lodima to Fomalux, and I agree with you when you opined that Lodima should be supported.