Fomadon R09 longevity

[Jojje]

It's commonly accepted Fomadon R09 is the same as Rodinal - right? After using half of my a 2-3 years old 250ml bottle of Fomadon R09 the result after development was a completely blank roll (120) of Tmax 400 film, not even frame numbers showing. Has anyone experienced this? Fix was freshly made Fomafix.

 

[afriman]

About a year after first opening a bottle, my negatives started coming out noticably thinner. This is not what one expects from Rodinal.

 

[Jojje]

About a year after first opening a bottle, my negatives started coming out noticably thinner. This is not what one expects from Rodinal.

I was beginning to suspect my methods... Too bad, Rodinal was a trusted companion for decades. Maybe better start mixing my own.

 

[Auer]

If you google "R09 shelflife" You get all kinds of mixed results.
It would be prudent to assume that any R09 formula is not the same as original Rodinal as far as shelf life goes.
I use Adox Rodinal, but also have a bottle of the Rollei R09 around here somewhere.

Good link:
https://www.adox.de/Photo/keeping-properties-of-developers/

 

[MattKing]

The history of Rodinal is a complex thing indeed.
R09 is equivalent to just one of several (relatively similar) versions of developer that have been given the name Rodinal over the decades.
Some of those versions have shown extremely long life, although the nature and quality of the bottle may have played a part in that.

 

[Auer]

The history of Rodinal is a complex thing indeed.
R09 is equivalent to just one of several (relatively similar) versions of developer that have been given the name Rodinal over the decades.
Some of those versions have shown extremely long life, although the nature and quality of the bottle may have played a part in that.

I believe bottle material matters a lot. Also, if youre not using a lot then Adox sells Rodinal in a 100ml bottle as well.

These are very affordable developers, and personally I dont see the point in trying to milk more than 2 years out of a bottle of anything.
It's simply not worth the risk of ruined film to me personally.

 

[Jojje]

I believe bottle material matters a lot. Also, if youre not using a lot then Adox sells Rodinal in a 100ml bottle as well.

These are very affordable developers, and personally I dont see the point in trying to milk more than 2 years out of a bottle of anything.
It's simply not worth the risk of ruined film to me personally.

You're right, of course, I always considered Rodinal being an exception. Fomadon bottle in question was bought 2-3 years ago and been open a bit over a year. In the past I've used over five years old Rodinal with perfect results. Luckily, this was a test film.
In German Fotoimpex site they say Adox Rodinal being "absolutely identical" to original recipe. Dieser Entwickler wird nach der letzen bekannten Agfa RODINAL original Rezeptur hergestellt. Er verwendet ausgesuchte, nachbehandelte Rohstoffe und ist in der Rezeptur absolut Identisch.
https://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/fotochemie/adox-rodinal-500-ml-konzentrat.html

 

[cmacd123]

origianl Rodinal was in a glass bottle, with a rubber stopper. I never trust Plastic bottles.

 

[afriman]

origianl Rodinal was in a glass bottle, with a rubber stopper. I never trust Plastic bottles.

My first bottle, inherited from someone else, was one like that. I used it for several years without any sign of loss of activity. I have also seen many claims from people who say they've had Rodinal sitting for decades in almost empty bottles, where it's turned almost pitch black but is still working perfectly. Which seems to suggest it's not affected by oxidation. R09 clearly seems to be different in that respect, and I wonder what it is in the formulation that causes the difference.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Fomadon R09 has Zinc powder in it!! Why?

 

[gone]

I had sudden failure w/ that developer too, so the real Rodinal is all I use now (along w/ other developers).

 

[mshchem]

I haven't had any experience with anything other than the Adox product. Adox uses a flow restriction on the bottle. This does a couple things. It helps in dispensing small volumes, it restricts air from entering the bottle, and stops users from returning excess back to the bottle.
Rodinal is a strong base, glass is great, but not practical for shipping and handling by the consumer.

 

[afriman]

This may be slightly off topic, but does anybody here have any experience or opinion regarding the keeping properties of parodinal? I'm strongly considering brewing my own as Rodinal is totally unobtainable where I am and cannot be shipped internationally. I've read various claims about parodinal's shelf life, and I guess it's unrealistic to expect a definitive answer, but any informed opinion would be welcome.

 

[Alan Johnson]

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/parodinal-5-years-later.72763/
I think it lasts as long as there is still sufite present to absorb air. The more air gets in the sooner it stops working.
My present bottle of PaRodinal is about 5 years old, rarely used, has deposited crystals.
It's in a glass bottle, half full, still blackens a film leader.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Just curious. If you're going to brew and use PaRodinal, why should you worry about a shelf-life longer than, say, six months? Its ingredients are always available and you can brew, whenever you want, the volume you're going to use in the next six months.

 

[koraks]

This may be slightly off topic, but does anybody here have any experience or opinion regarding the keeping properties of parodinal?

In my experience: poor. Maybe in entirely full, glass and well-stopped bottles it'll last. I don't know, and I don't see reason to risk it.

 

[Alan Johnson]

The best plastic bottles from Agfa had a special mark, I have also a bottle from Adox with this mark:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/plastic-bottles-that-stop-air-ingress.144892/

 

[afriman]

Just curious. If you're going to brew and use PaRodinal, why should you worry about a shelf-life longer than, say, six months? Its ingredients are always available and you can brew, whenever you want, the volume you're going to use in the next six months.

You're right, of course. My question has more to do with curiosity about differences in formulation that could affect longevtiy, than about practical use. Still, it's less convenient to brew small quantities (less than say 100ml) at a time. That amount is enough to develop 20 rolls of 35mm, which I seldom reach in six months, so I won't be using it optimally. I know this sounds cheap of me, but it's not so much about the cost — I'm just anal about efficiency and optimal utilisation!

 

[afriman]

In my experience: poor. Maybe in entirely full, glass and well-stopped bottles it'll last. I don't know, and I don't see reason to risk it.

As I said, Rodinal is unobtainable over here and impossible to order from overseas, so I have to look for a viable alternative.

 

[koraks]

Mix small batches of rodinal to circumvent the storage problem? Personally I prefer other developers though. I'm fond of mytol at the moment.

 

[afriman]

Unfortunately, I'm a bit of a frustrated alchemist, so I'm bent on trying every developer formula I can get hold of. I've already mixed D-23, D-76 and PC-TEA. After (pa)Rodinal, It'll probaly be Mytol and DS-10. I know it's the worst thing you can do, but I can't help myself — curiosity has gotten the better of me.

 

[afriman]

Personally I prefer other developers though. I'm fond of mytol at the moment.

Are you using the original Mytol recipe or one of the Instant Mytols? And how do you find it compares to Xtol?

 

[Tom Kershaw]

The 'DS' series of developers are worth looking at. I have been using DS-10 and DS-2/12 with success recently. Alongside DS-14 for prints.

Link: https://web.archive.org/web/2008093...er_Recommendations#DS-10_Fine_grain_developer

 

[afriman]

The 'DS' series of developers are worth looking at. I have been using DS-10 and DS-2/12 with success recently. Alongside DS-14 for prints.

Link: https://web.archive.org/web/2008093...er_Recommendations#DS-10_Fine_grain_developer

Yes, I know that page and I'm just waiting for my Dimezone to arrive before trying DS-10 — would rather not use Phenidone because of the possible problems he mentions. Again taking Xtol as a benchmark, how well do you think DS-10 holds up to it?

 

[koraks]

Are you using the original Mytol recipe or one of the Instant Mytols? And how do you find it compares to Xtol?

Instant, with a minor modification so I can use ascorbic acid instead of ascorbate. As to how it compares, all I know is that development times listed for xtol give me good negatives that print easily, with fine grain and good tonality. I haven't done any side by side comparisons.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Again taking Xtol as a benchmark, how well do you think DS-10 holds up to it?

I have been making DS-10 with Phenidone because I have a good supply, and haven't noticed any problems, although I don't have Dimezone to compare. In terms of holding up to XTOL, my main use has been with Kodak TMY-2, and results have been very good.