Fomabrom Variant 111 Surface Gloss

[AZD]

Reaching out to see if anyone here can add a few extra data points:

Starting in 2020 I began using Fomabrom Variant 111 paper and rather like it. However on my third box, emulsion number 0232, the surface was unusual. The white areas dried with the expected bright gloss, but the dark areas dried with less, more or less proportional to how dark the area is. Not quite matte, but definitely different. The combined effect makes the photo look almost etched when viewed with a reflection. BTW, the only other information I could find is a thread on the large format forum.

This week I emailed Foma as I am about to reorder. The response was that their paper supplier had changed the base material and true gloss is no longer available.

Now, in researching this issue online, I had found that warmtone 131 was already acknowledged as being semi-gloss, but this is the first time I have heard of 111 being included.

So:

1) Has anyone else experienced less-glossy 111?

2) If so, was it uniform or “etched”?

I am wondering whether perhaps there have been two different issues and my question to Foma didn’t translate well.

I wouldn’t mind slightly less gloss if it is uniform, but the etched-effect-gloss isn’t my favorite. To be fair you kind of have to look for it… but I do look for it.

 

[koraks]

I had found that warmtone 131 was already acknowledged as being semi-gloss

Since when is this supposed to have been the case? I never noticed it. Looks just as glossy as regular 111 to me.

I can see how a differential gloss might arise due to specific characteristics of the emulsion - not so much the paper base though. It's conceivable that you get slightly differential hardening of a partially hardened gelatin depending on the degree of development. This is what you often see on film as well, where the image is visible in a very subtle relief. As the emulsion contracts to a greater or lesser degree, the surface sheen may also subtly change.

Sorry, I've not seen this on any FB paper. Is there any possibility of showing an example, or is it too subtle to be photographed?

 

[Reginald S]

Three years ago Foma has answered to Mr. Moersch concerning the sudden appearing mottling/snowball effect coming with lithprinting on Fomatone 131.
Papers surface turned from glossy to semigloss at this time.
He told me that Foma talked to hom about changing the emulsion, which in my opinion will give more sense than changing the paper base.

 

[AZD]

I can see how a differential gloss might arise due to specific characteristics of the emulsion - not so much the paper base though. It's conceivable that you get slightly differential hardening of a partially hardened gelatin depending on the degree of development. This is what you often see on film as well, where the image is visible in a very subtle relief. As the emulsion contracts to a greater or lesser degree, the surface sheen may also subtly change.

This may be what I am seeing, your description seems to match. Strange that it didn’t happen with previous boxes.

I’ll try to get a picture. Depending on the image you may not even notice except when the light hits it in a particular way.

Anyway, I’m going to take it as good news that (apparently) this isn’t widespread. I should just order my paper go with whatever arrives. I really like Variant 111. Adding a box of 131, too.

 

[AZD]

Here goes… the effect is subtle, and may only reinforce the point that it’s negligible. Sorry for the crappy phone pics with messed up white balance.

“Etching” or relief visible with reflection. White looks more glossy than black:

Normal viewing angle looks more natural:

 

[AZD]

For the record, previous boxes had more uniform and possibly higher level of gloss. This from several years back:

 

[koraks]

Well, I can't really see what you're describing. I wonder if it's maybe just normal scatter from the thinner areas of the print that create the suggestion of a variation in the surface quality. IDK. What I see is the normal surface of Foma papers. Ilford has a more regular surface quality that some may prefer (the question is how much one is prepared to pay for that very subtle difference).