Folding or portable medium format recommendation

[ignacj]

I love my RZ67 but would like to get something in same format medium 6xX that is easy to carry around. Rangefinder or folding cam is ok - i do not care for plastic toys currently sold in MF format. Budget is about $200-$300.

I'm looking at Moskva 5 models on *bay shipping mostly from Ukraine for about $100-$150. Anyone using one of these cameras or any other similar recommendation?

Thanks
ig

 

[PaulC]

I (and several others) have found the backing plate on the Moskva 5 does not shield the film adequately from light getting through the red windows. In fact, I spent some time yesterday sticking some velvet around the holes in the backing plate (which is easy to remove) to try to address this. It's mainly a problem with faster films.

The German folders all seem to have better designed backplates as I have used many of them and never had a problem from their windows. The super-Ikonta line is very nice. I am fond of the 6x4.5 Ikonta A, which is very small and portable and if properly adjusted will give great photos. Certo Six on e-bay is renowned as a source of properly CLA'd folders and you should be able to get something nice from him within your budget (I have a Franka Solida IIL from him, which is an excellent shooter).

Having a coupled rangefinder is nice but I find that in the conditions where I use mine - basically shooting in daylight outside - it is not necessary, since focusing by guesswork is normally accurate enough and much of the time just using the hyperfocal distance/aperture marked on the shutter covers everything. The non-rangefinder versions are usually much cheaper.

 

[Rick A]

If you like 6x9 negatives, a Kodak Tourist II with the feed side modified for 120(620 take-up spool) is an awesome camera for the age. I sold mine some time ago, and regret it. I also had an Ansco Speedex Jr. and Agfa Isolette II for 6x6 that were great little cameras. If I had the budget, I would own a Voigtlander 667 Bessa III or similar modern folder that shoots 6x6 or 6x7. I am no fan of 6x4.5, thus have no input for that format. I think I may start looking around for another Tourist II.

 

[R gould]

If you can find one an Ensign Selfix 820 with the Ross Xpres lens is a great camera, I have one and get great results with it, the only slight drawback is lack of a rangefinder, but it has a great D.O.F dial, and rangefinders are easily got for peanuts.
Richard

 

[MattCarey]

I got a Moskva 4 from Fedka about 5 years back. It worked well. It doesn't focus very close (1.5 meters?).

I picked one that had been modified to be multiformat with 6x4.5. They didn't have the mask for that (just the 6x6, which I loaned to my brother...). But I figured if someone took the trouble to modify this camera, it probably was good at one time in its life.

 

[PaulC]

If you check my stream, I've now got shots in it from an Ensign Commando (rangefinder) with an Ensar lens in 6x4.5 configuration, a 6x4.5 Super-Ikonta with a Tessar-type Xenar lens, a 6x6 Nettar 517/16 with a Novar triplet lens and a 6x4.5 Nettar 516 also with a Novar triplet. There's not a lot to choose between the image quality. Tessars can offer wider apertures and better image quality wide open than triplets, especially at the edges, but tend to have lower contrast.

 

[Klainmeister]

The only thing with the Moskvas is that there quality ranges from OK to absolute rubbish--camera to camera. I've owned four and one had a lens that was incredibly sharp, the other so soft it was a joke and then the other two took some time to get recalibrated and the shutters accurate again. Drop some coin and get something like an Agfa Billy, Welta, Voigtlander Bessa, or Ikon.

 

[cjbecker]

I am also in the same boat. I am also looking for a medium format camera that is portable and has a fast lens. I normally shoot and 500cm but i dont like to haul it around. My other camera is a rolleicord. It's a good travel camera but i dont love the lens or the wlf. Eventhough i like the one on the 500cm. I would really like the new gf670 if it had a 2.8 lens. The folder that i like is the centro6, spelled wrong, i know.

 

[ntenny]

The price premium to get a coupled rangefinder on a folder is, as you've probably already noticed, significant. If you don't mind doing scale focussing (possibly with an accessory rangefinder; they can be found cheaply), there are a lot of options. Scale focussing also makes fast lenses kind of unrealistic for many uses.

No "classic" folder is going to match a Hasselblad or RZ67 for technical image quality, of course. It's probably important to decide how much of a tradeoff you're willing to make---e.g,. is a triplet lens with its limitations going to be all right, or do you absolutely need to have a Tessar type? Can you tolerate a slower lens (e.g., f/4.5 is pretty common)?

-NT

 

[MDR]

Fast for a Folder the Balda Super Baldax with the 2.9/80mm Baltar (triplet probably a Schneider Radionar). Also look for Post war japanese folders like the Yamato minon six III with a 3.2/75 Luminor Anastigmat (triplet lens and uncoupled rangefinder) or the Mamiya six with the Zuiko lens (Tessar clone coupled rangefinder)
For Portraits the Triplet lenses are usually a better choice than the Tessar, the image they make look smoother the Tessars are harsher. None of the lenses on older folders will be as sharp as a modern lens but sometimes the lower contrast and smoother transition from sharp to unsharp will make the picture look better than with modern lenses.

 

[P C Headland]

If you want 6x9, a Zeiss Ikonta 524/2 with either lens is a good buy. It has an RF, but is uncoupled. I've got a Moskva 5, and while it looks well worn, it works really well. In fact, some people (including me) would advise on getting one that looks used, as this probably signifies its one of the good ones !

On the 6x6 side, the Super Ikonta III, Iskra, Certo 6, Mamiya 6 (old one) or even a Super Fujica-6 (if you can find one) are all decent coupled RF folders. If you want the sharpest lensed old folder, get a serviced Certo 6 - the lenses on them are really good, and the camera is extremely rigid & well made. You may find you need to spend more than $300 though.

Good luck in your quest.

 

[2F/2F]

The closest "feel" to an RB/RZ will be an SLR. I'd go with an M645 Pro or Pro TL. They are not pocketable, but they are plenty easy to carry around.

 

[DBP]

If you want something you can easily carry in a pocket, skip the coupled rangefinder. All of those are pretty heavy. Something like the ANSCO Speedex will be much lighter. Somewhere on here is a thread on medium format camera weight.

 

[Mark Fisher]

I tried the folder route and finally got a Fuji rangefinder but that is out of your budget. That said, the quality of the image is the equal or better than any camera in existence. If that is more than you want to spend, try one of the Japanese TLRs (Minolta Autocord, Yashica, etc) or a Rolleicord. If they are small enough, they are well worth considering.

 

[JMichaelMeyers]

Dear Rick,

I just purchased a nice Kodak Tourist II with the f6.3 lens and 1/200 max shutter speed for it's 6x9 cm format. I will use it for some B&W landscapes and city-scapes plus IR's. It's a great folding medium format and will be easy to use. I will for looking for the f4.5 1/800 shutter model in the Tourist II next.

Some 620 film is available, but 2X's 120 cost. How did you modify this camera to use 120 film? I doubt I will be able to find 620 IR film and it may be cost too much. I do not want to got to rolling 120 film on 620 spools, but that may be a poor solution.

Thanks in advance.

Joe Meyers
JMichaelMeyersPhotography@gmail.com

 

[SuzanneR]

I recently bought an Agfa Isolette from a guy on ebay, certo6, who rehabs folders. It's a small fun little camera, and at just over $200 (paid, $215, and $15 for shipping) it's right on your budget.

 

[Wade D]

Last year I bought a refurbished Agfa Isolette for 6x6. I also found a Certo Certix for 6x9.
Both are very compact when you don't feel like hauling out the bigger gear. Both also make very good negatives. No rangefinders so they are scale focus only.

 

[steven_e007]

Hi,

I collect 6 X 6 folders and have at least thirty different models.

I agree with ntenny that a coupled rangefinder, whilst nice, raises the price way beyond the value.

I have some really nice uncoupled rangefinders and none rangefinder models. Seperate rangefinders to slot into the flash shoe are quite cheap.

My favourite 6 X 6 cameras include Zeiss Ikontas, Nettax and Nettar. These are well made and always have excellent bellows. The Novar lens (actually a Rodenstock triplet, I believe) is much maligned, without good reason. The Tessar is a little better wide open, but IMHO not by enough to justify the fuss some people make.

The Voigtlander Perkeo is nice - small, lightweight and with a very crisp, contrasy lens.

Agfa Isolettes have reasonable build and optics, but the bellows are ALWAYS rubbish and need replacing.

The Kodak 66 is better than it's price and reputation would suggest.

The Agifold cameras I have were an absolute revelation; I expected them to be poor performers. Big, bulky and crude, they are optically very good indeed, but probably very rare outside the UK (and very common within it).

With the budget you are suggesting, you could get a really nice CLA'd uncoupled folder with a really decent lens. They have their limitations, some things they don't do too well, but for a budget portable camera a 6 X 6 folder is hard to beat.

 

[Matus Kalisky]

I would say Minolta Autocord (never had one, but had Rolleiflex T and keep reading how is the Autocord supposed to be better). It will most probaly top any folder in image quality and the tessar wide open is really nice for portraits.

Or save a bit more and go with Fuji GA645.

None of the above is going to fit in a pocket, but will still be MUCH smaller and lighter than your RZ67

 

[jnoir]

There are lots of good folders that can deliver the results you're looking for...

Like steven_e007, I too own several cameras, but hey, cannot say "no"... Within your price range, the ones that I use most and would recommend are:

6x9: Voigtländer Bessa RF w/ Heliar (coupled RF, also 6x6 if the mask is included), an Ensign 820 Special w/ Xpress (uncoupled rangefinder, this is dual format and the mask for 6x6 is always included) or, if you ever find one, a Balda Super Pontura (coupled rangefinder, not common at all, and probably well over your budget limit unless you're very lucky, but a great camera indeed)

6x6: Agfa Super Isolette (a bit over your budget maybe, the Isolette III with Solinar can be within your price range), Ensign Auto Range 220 (coupled rangefinder, also 6x4.5 with the included mask, cheap but reliable, can be found with Tessar lenses, but most frequently with an Ensar triplet) and +1 to the Mamiya Six comment.

6x4.5: Ensign 16-20 Auto-Range or Super Ikonta A

There are cameras, such as the great Welta Weltur, that can be found in different sizes. And a CLA will be almost mandatory for a camera that has used / been sitting untouched during / for the last XX years.

I must say that I do not rely on russian gear, I've repaired enough Iskras to know better than that. BUT that's just my own opinion, lots of people use them with good results. Just for me, it is simply not worth the risk.

 

[Brian Legge]

As an Autocord user, I'll definitely vouch for the camera. Its about the size of two larger classic folders - the size difference isn't as much as would seem intuitive; the image quality and focusing ease will beat the majority of the folders out there with the exception of the premium price ones. The Rolleicord IV/V/Va/Vb are also great cameras which are occasionally found in this price range.

Expect 6x9 folders to have softer edges than you'd hope due to inability hold the film flat. Unless you're okay with that, I'd suggest skipping them.

Super Baldaxes are suppose to be nice but seem incredibly rare, especially those with the higher end lenses. Same deal with the Ensign Auto Ranges and Welturs.I have no experience with any of them, love the results I've seen but the cameras don't show up often and when they do, they sell for quite a bit.

The Perkeo is nice. Good size, Color Skopar lens is solid. People will talk about winding issues on the II - they aren't kidding. If you can pick up a Perkeo I with the Color Skopar lens, go for it over the II.

If you like 6x4.5, the Zenobia is worth checking out. Scale focus like the Perkeo and no film winding automation but the Hesper/Neo Hesper lens is a solid performer.

If you pick up an Iskra, take one with the red window drilled in the back. The lens can produce wonderful results but the auto-film advance detection is seems like a very common weak point. I picked one up in excellent condition but it only works reliably with certain films. With thinner film, the camera won't detect the film properly until about the 6th frame. Wonderful lens though.

I'd pass on the other Russian medium format gear, particularly if you want to shoot at the highest shutter speed they support as the shutter design has an... extremely strong spring that makes it difficult to hold the camera steady. Or at least that was my experience with the Moskva 5 though I don't know which models this applies to.

Most of all, try to buy from someone who will guarantee the camera is working, ideally who can show you results taken with that camera. There is a lot to go wrong between lens issues, shutter issues, bellows condition, front standard straightness, pressure plates, functional winding, etc.

 

[Iskra 2]

If you pick up an Iskra, take one with the red window drilled in the back. The lens can produce wonderful results but the auto-film advance detection is seems like a very common weak point. I picked one up in excellent condition but it only works reliably with certain films. With thinner film, the camera won't detect the film properly until about the 6th frame. Wonderful lens though.

The auto film advance is sooo.... cool. I'd suffer a problem with some film manufacturers, ....and find a good/different film mfg, ...... never had a problem with Kodak film (Portra). If you are dealing with fast thin film beware of light leakage through the modified back window.

A good Iskra 2 is a real "Kick". Well worth the extra bucks .... IMHO.

Regards.

 

[hairygit]

If you can find a good one (I found 2 excellent ones) a Moskva 4 or 5 can give very satisfactory results Fedka.com have a Moskva4 and 2 Moskva5 currently advertised, and they have been checked over and calibrated, so would be a good investment

 

[AlbertZeroK]

No talk of the Kiev 6C? I would think this would be perfect (I'm not a fan of folders)

 

[toledosun]

I just bought a Mess Ikonta (6x9) from certo6, website http://certo6.com/

It's called a "mess" because it's an uncoupled rangefinder (i.e. you use one knob to find the distance through the viewfinder, and use a separate focusing ring to set the distrance). Being a folder, it fits into my pants pocket. Best part is that because Jurgen CLAs all cameras before selling them, I didn't have to worry about whether the camera is working properly.

He has a camera for every budget, so you should find something suitable.