Folding 6x6, narrowed, looking for insight

[Darryl Roberts]

Hi,

I have narrowed my search for a 6x6 fOLDer to the following:

1. Franka Solida III
2. Mamiya 6 Automat
3. Voigtlander Perkeo II

1. I hear the Radinar 2.9 lens is superb. I guess I could get use to the red window counter.
2. No red counter, coupled rangefinder.
3. I heard it also has an awesome lens option . . .Skopar 3.5

I never shoot wide open, I'm a f/8 or higher guy. They're all in the price range I'm willing to spend. #3 is scarce.

I'm looking for any insight from you if you have first-hand knowledge of any of these folders.

Advanced, thank you.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Hi,

I have narrowed my search for a 6x6 fOLDer to the following:

1. Franka Solida III
2. Mamiya 6 Automat
3. Voigtlander Perkeo II

1. I hear the Radinar 2.9 lens is superb. I guess I could get use to the red window counter.
2. No red counter, coupled rangefinder.
3. I heard it also has an awesome lens option . . .Skopar 3.5

I never shoot wide open, I'm a f/8 or higher guy. They're all in the price range I'm willing to spend. #3 is scarce.

I'm looking for any insight from you if you have first-hand knowledge of any of these folders.

Advanced, thank you.

The Radionar is a triplet. Back when, it was a standing joke in either Modern or Popular Photography, the standard mediocre (or worse) lens. However, I've never owned or used one.

My Perkeo II is a joy to use. Unfortunately I've never got a satisfactorily sharp shot with it. Against this, sharpness is overrated.

 

[GregY]

I have the Perkeo ll with the color Skopar. Sharp enough for me.... yellow filter. TMax 100..... iphone photo of 8x10 print.
A little less convenient to use than the Fuji Texas leicas (but tiny by comparison)..... it goes places with me. Sold my Paubel Makina 670. If i'm not predominantly doing a big shoot with MF (in which case these days i am using a Rolleiflex plus a Pentax 645 w multiple lenses)..... it's my choice. It's coming to the Dolomites w me in Sept along with a Leica M (with a 21 or 28mm & maybe a 50mm).

 

[DWThomas]

I have a Perkeo II with Color Skopar. It gives a decent account of itself.

There are a number of shots in my gallery here -- examples:

And this will get you to more.

 

[GregY]

I have a Perkeo II with Color Skopar. It gives a decent account of itself.

There are a number of shots in my gallery here -- examples:

And this will get you to more.

Indeed...... love mine & consider it a bargain at the price.

 

[Bruce Butterfield]

I have all three of these ~~ the Mamiya Automat is the most reliable and heaviest (plus it’s the only one that has an integrated rangefinder), the Perkeo is the lightest and most compact but the film advance mechanism is not overly dependable. Both have better optics than the Franka at wider apertures. I normally prefer the Mamiya overall but I do wish it was lighter. None of them have strap lugs which I find annoying. All produce very nice images when stopped down to f/8 or better.

 

[Dan Daniel]

OK, I know, but just in case- Fujica Super-6. Great lens with unit helical focusing, not front element focusing. Auto frame spacing. Simple but accurate coupled rangefinder.

I've had a co9uple of Baby Bessas and Bessa, 6x4.5 and 6x6, and found the Skopar to be an very good lens.

 

[JPD]

Then there is the Voigtländer Perkeo I without frame counter. The Skopar is best, but the Vaskar triplet is good and better than the Radionar on the Franka. You could say that the Voigtländer Perkeo lenses are better for enargements you can hang on the wall, while the Franka with Radionar is fine for smaller prints for the photo album.

I don't know much about the Mamiya 6 Automat, but the image quality is very good (looked at scans on flickr).

 

[Ian Grant]

The Radionar is a triplet. Back when, it was a standing joke in either Modern or Popular Photography, the standard mediocre (or worse) lens. However, I've never owned or used one.

My Perkeo II is a joy to use. Unfortunately I've never got a satisfactorily sharp shot with it. Against this, sharpness is overrated.

I have an 80mm f2.9 Baldinar, in a rim-set Pronto, I'm fairly certain it's a re-badged Radionar, and it's definitely a triplet. I've not tried it mainly because there's no cable released socket on the shutter, and no T setting either.

Personally I would love a Mamiya 6 Automat, if I found one for a decent price.

Ian

 

[JPD]

I have an 80mm f2.9 Baldinar, in a rim-set Pronto, I'm fairly certain it's a re-badged Radionar, and it's definitely a triplet.

I wonder if the Baldanar and Baltar, both 2,9/80, are the same lens or rebranded lenses from different manufacturers. There is also the 35/80 Baldanar. They have the red "C" that Enna used, while Schneider used a triangle.

 

[Ian Grant]

I wonder if the Baldanar and Baltar, both 2,9/80, are the same lens or rebranded lenses from different manufacturers. There is also the 35/80 Baldanar. They have the red "C" that Enna used, while Schneider used a triangle.

It's hard to know without comparisons, this Baldanar is probably uncoated.

Ian

 

[Darryl Roberts]

OK, I know, but just in case- Fujica Super-6. Great lens with unit helical focusing, not front element focusing. Auto frame spacing. Simple but accurate coupled rangefinder.

I've had a co9uple of Baby Bessas and Bessa, 6x4.5 and 6x6, and found the Skopar to be an very good lens.

Thank you. I didn’t know about that viable option, Fujica.

 

[bernard_L]

The Radionar is a triplet. Back when, it was a standing joke in either Modern or Popular Photography, the standard mediocre (or worse) lens. However, I've never owned or used one.

Indeed it is a joke wide open. Probably it was Marketing that decided on the max aperture.
But...

I never shoot wide open, I'm a f/8 or higher guy.

At f/8 and smaller aperture it performs very properly, as any decent triplet.

1. Voigtlander Perkeo II

(...SNIP...)
3. I heard it also has an awesome lens option . . .Skopar 3.5
#3 is scarce.

The Perkeo I exists also with a Skopar. Maybe it can be had for less than a Perkeo II. I have one (and a Franka Solida). Neat little package, with attention to details.
And don't forget: your sharpest lens is a tripod.

 

[blee1996]

I have a Mamiya 6 Automat that I CLA'd myself. It is very convenient (with coupled rangefinder and auto frame stopping), and the F.C. Zuiko 75/3.5 (a Tessar design) lens is more than sharp enough. Here is one photo from a test roll. It is compact but dense, and the controls are all in the logical places. Film flatness is excellent due to the slide-in metal plate.



I have also used Skopar and Radionar on 6x9 folders (not 6x6). Even though I have a slight preference towards Skopar due to its overall performance, I would say Radionar is plenty good at f/8 or smaller.

At the end of the day, folders are all about condition, focus alignment and film flatness. These are the weak links in an image maker, not the lens.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The lens on the Mamiya 6 folders is no slouch, either the Zuiko or the Rikenon (I've got an older version of the Six). Plus, unlike both of the others, Mamiya uses unit focusing (moves the film plane, actually, vs. moving the front element of a triplet or Tessar type -- this lets the front standard be extra rigid and doesn't require a linkage from the lens to the RF). At f/8 and smaller, you won't be able to tell the difference, so I'd go with the Automat and be able to shoot when you can't see the frame numbers in the red window (like deep twilight with very fast film).

 

[MFstooges]

The lens on the Mamiya 6 folders is no slouch, either the Zuiko or the Rikenon (I've got an older version of the Six). Plus, unlike both of the others, Mamiya uses unit focusing (moves the film plane, actually, vs. moving the front element of a triplet or Tessar type -- this lets the front standard be extra rigid and doesn't require a linkage from the lens to the RF). At f/8 and smaller, you won't be able to tell the difference, so I'd go with the Automat and be able to shoot when you can't see the frame numbers in the red window (like deep twilight with very fast film).

I bumped on a YouTube video that said the Zuiko has potential to develop internal haze in hot and humid environment such as ... Japan in summer. Is this true?

 

[loccdor]

Some triplets will be sharp enough (meaning about 25 line pair per mm) at f/8. However my Voigtar 105mm f/4.5 triplet is only sharp enough by f/11. My Heliar 110mm f/3.5 5-element is sharp enough by f/8. These are pre-war lenses and if you are looking at post-war ones you will probably do better.

 

[henryvk]

All three of these cameras can take great pictures but here are some thought:

The Perkeo II is very rare. They go for collectors' prices which will not reflect well what you get in actual "value". The viewfinder is very squinty imo.

The Mamiya will most likely come from Japan where it's hot and moist, both conditions not conductive to the wellbeing of folding cameras. Good viewfinder.

As for the Franka: Only the newer folders (Bessa III, Fuji) will come with lenses better than a triplet or Tessar design. That's just how it is and I'm not sure one should worry too much about it, especially if you never shoot wide open, which these lenses weren't really meant for anyway. The Solida has DEP, which is always good to have.

That being said, after going from red-window to auto-stop + double exposure prevention, I'm not sure I'm going back. Hate to present you with another option but the Super Ikonta III combines all the qualities of the abovementioned cameras with almost none of the disadvantages. Small, light, has a rangefinder, frame counter, auto-stop, DEP, good viewfinder (for a 50s folder), good triplet or Tessar.

 

[Prest_400]

I got bitten by the folder bug last autumn when looking for a "B" camera to go together with the Texas Leica. From the list here, I'd firstly pick the Mamiya Six for the features and followed by a Perkeo with Color Skopar for the compactness.
However, in my case I ended up with a Super Ikonta IV. There is an interesting series of threads of which I recall: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/sharpest-120-folder.181629/

As for the Franka: Only the newer folders (Bessa III, Fuji) will come with lenses better than a triplet or Tessar design. That's just how it is and I'm not sure one should worry too much about it, especially if you never shoot wide open, which these lenses weren't really meant for anyway. The Solida has DEP, which is always good to have.

That being said, after going from red-window to auto-stop + double exposure prevention, I'm not sure I'm going back. Hate to present you with another option but the Super Ikonta III combines all the qualities of the abovementioned cameras with almost none of the disadvantages. Small, light, has a rangefinder, frame counter, auto-stop, DEP, good viewfinder (for a 50s folder), good triplet or Tessar.

From a modern Fujinon I actually realised how much difference the Tessar types and triplets are, though I need to compare well stopped down (f16) where diffraction and the sweet spot of the simpler designs deliver good results. In one of these threads someone dismissed the GF670/Bessa III for a Super Ikonta III/IV for the compactness, robustness and price difference. (aka, the modern folder is nice and fully featured but also overly large and expensive).

I have the Perkeo ll with the color Skopar. Sharp enough for me.... yellow filter. TMax 100..... iphone photo of 8x10 print.
A little less convenient to use than the Fuji Texas leicas (but tiny by comparison)..... it goes places with me. Sold my Paubel Makina 670. If i'm not predominantly doing a big shoot with MF (in which case these days i am using a Rolleiflex plus a Pentax 645 w multiple lenses)..... it's my choice. It's coming to the Dolomites w me in Sept along with a Leica M (with a 21 or 28mm & maybe a 50mm).

Someone put out a video about the Perkeo in the Dolomites, I link it as it is interesting:

 

[Oldwino]

I think the Perkeo is a terrific camera, but I will put in a vote for the Agfa Isolate III with the Solinar lens. Get one that's got new bellows and has been serviced. Fantastic little camera, fits in a back jeans pocket, has a built in (non-coupled) rangefinder, and a simple to use mechanism. Fool-proof. A clean Solinar can match anything from Zeiss.

 

[halfaman]

I have a Franka Solida III since a couple of months and I find the Radionar outstanding for a triplet. Contrast is excellent and center sharpness is beyond my needs. Towards the edges aberrations appear but at f/8 there is nothing to worry about. The biggest issues are film flatness, some pictures have a strange blurr just on the extreme of one side, and a mediocre viewfinder (good brightness but small and with lot of distorsion).

 

[henryvk]

I got bitten by the folder bug last autumn when looking for a "B" camera to go together with the Texas Leica. From the list here, I'd firstly pick the Mamiya Six for the features and followed by a Perkeo with Color Skopar for the compactness.
However, in my case I ended up with a Super Ikonta IV. There is an interesting series of threads of which I recall: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/sharpest-120-folder.181629/


From a modern Fujinon I actually realised how much difference the Tessar types and triplets are, though I need to compare well stopped down (f16) where diffraction and the sweet spot of the simpler designs deliver good results. In one of these threads someone dismissed the GF670/Bessa III for a Super Ikonta III/IV for the compactness, robustness and price difference. (aka, the modern folder is nice and fully featured but also overly large and expensive).


Someone put out a video about the Perkeo in the Dolomites, I link it as it is interesting:

In my experience, folders tend to accumulate until you find one that you are mostly happy with (and many people simply abandon the whole concept after such tryouts). I had about five or six so far, all were good fun in their own way. Most had poorer viewfinders than I'm willing to put up with, but all of them had lenses that I thought were adequate or even good.

So as not to take the thread further off topic: If you can at all justify it, try out a handful of different folders rather than agonising over which one is the perfect one.

 

[wjlapier]

I’d also consider a Certo Dolly SS with the Tessar lens. Amazing build and sharp lens. No need to use the red window after first image is shot. Little wheel on bottom used to advance film to next frame.

 

[GregY]

I got bitten by the folder bug last autumn when looking for a "B" camera to go together with the Texas Leica. From the list here, I'd firstly pick the Mamiya Six for the features and followed by a Perkeo with Color Skopar for the compactness.
However, in my case I ended up with a Super Ikonta IV. There is an interesting series of threads of which I recall: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/sharpest-120-folder.181629/


From a modern Fujinon I actually realised how much difference the Tessar types and triplets are, though I need to compare well stopped down (f16) where diffraction and the sweet spot of the simpler designs deliver good results. In one of these threads someone dismissed the GF670/Bessa III for a Super Ikonta III/IV for the compactness, robustness and price difference. (aka, the modern folder is nice and fully featured but also overly large and expensive).


Someone put out a video about the Perkeo in the Dolomites, I link it as it is interesting:

Thanks for the video Prest.... I've been to a few of the spots he photographed in the Dolomites..... I look forward to seeing what i bring back in Sept!

 

[Sirius Glass]

I had a circa 1933 Certo SuperDolly folding camera with a very sharp, high quality Zeiss f/3.5 lens, 645 and 6x6 folding camera. I was missing the 645 film cover plate, but the modern 645 120 film numbers did not line up with the numbers.