folders, folders, folders

[Eric Rose]

I have an Agfa folder that takes 6x9 images. Taped up a bunch of holes in teh bellows about a month ago and took it out for a shoot. Well it takes wonderful pics, but I didn't find all the leaks as I had a significant number of light streaks.

Not the sharpest lense I've used but it imparts a very neat "feel" to the pics. I will try it again when I have some time.

Maybe I can convince Ian to scan one of the negs for me so I can share it with you all.

 

[gma]

My favorite folder is an early 1900's beautiful brown leather covered Ansco. Unfortunately it uses 116 film. I know some 116 cameras have been modified to use 120 film, but I have not figured out how to know when to stop winding for each exposure and I don't want to cut a hole in the back of a collector camera. I have ordered a 1930's Zeiss Nettar 4.5x6 folder which I hope to fix up to be usable.

 

[rjs003]

I noticed some mention of Graflex folders. While in the Navy many years ago , I was assigned a Graflex Super Speed. If I could afford yet another camera today, this would be the folder I would want to own. Might do that in the future. Means that I would have to upgrade the darkroom and also load my own film holders. O Well something to look foward to in the years to come.

 

[Doug Bennett]

I have an Iskra, and while the build quality is suspect, it's capable of nice shots. My favorite, though, is a $30.00 Zeiss Nettar 517/16 w/a slow lens and guess focus. But that uncoated optic has a definite "look." I can get those pearly skin tones more easily with it than any of my other cameras. Plus, it's tiny when folded up, and is a lovely bit of workmanship.

 

[Jennyann]

Two more folder nuts here - we have over 30 now but the Perkeo's and Bessa's are the ones I like best

Jenny.

 

[Seele]

Jennymann,

Interesting to see that you have both the Bessa and Perkeo (6X6 post-war I presume).

I have a suspicion that the camera front of Bessas (pre- and post-war) are less sturdy than the comparable Ikontas, where the lens is not always held completely perpendicular to the film plane; a situation also seen in the folding Vito (except Vito III perhaps). I also think the post-war Perkeo has the situation remedied.

Would you share your experiences with us?

 

[Jennyann]

We have three pre war Bessas, a Bessa, a Bessa 46 and a range finder Bessa. We also have two post war Bessas, a Bessa I and a Bessa II.

Our Perkeo collection is two Perkeo Is. a Perkeo II and a Perkeo IIIe.

Amongst the other cameras in our collection are Zeiss Ikontas and Super Ikontas and the East German Zeiss, the Ercona.

We also have a Mamiya 6 and a Seagull which give excellent results.

We have some of these cameras and the photos taken with them on our website.

Jenny

 

[gma]

Doug,

I hope I can fix up the Zeiss Nettar I have on order. Under certain lighting conditions those old uncoated lenses have an effect similar to a mild diffusion filter. I can see that they would be good for portraiture.

 

[Seele]

Doug,

I hope I can fix up the Zeiss Nettar I have on order. Under certain lighting conditions those old uncoated lenses have an effect similar to a mild diffusion filter. I can see that they would be good for portraiture.

gma,

The perils of using old folders are manifold, the first is light leaks from worn bellows and camera back enclosure, and sometimes the red windows can leak light too.

Then there is the issue of wear and tear of the camera front mechanism which might get the lens not positioned perpendicular to the film plane.

From experience, uncoated lenses, while inherently being more prone to flare, are often blamed for lower contrast, but then, the actual condition of the lens is often the culprit. With the shutter open and iris fully opened, you can point it towards a bright light and look at the lens through the back, and more often than not, you can see severe hazing, due to the lens surfaces deteriorating. Often this problem can be fixed by careful and through cleaning, restoring the lens back to its original performance.

Most of the lenses I use for large format work are pretty much considered as antiques, including several brass-barrelled Protars, Double-Protars, Dagors, etc etc, and as they are all quite free from surface tarnish they actually perform very well on modern monochrome and colour materials with no appreciable problem with flare.

 

[gma]

Seele,

I should have said "old inexpensive uncoated lenses can produce effects similar to a mild diffusion filter, especially if they have scratches, dirt or fungus". I did not mean to imply that all uncoated lenses are inferior.
I think Ansel Adams' best work was made using what we would now consider antique lenses. Lack of coating does not make a lens obsolete. I think the early soft coatings were limited to military aerial lenses until well after WW II. Almost any photo made before 1948 or so was made with an uncoated lens.

 

[photomc]

A little off topic, but how do most of the folder users determine your exposure? Do you gestimate or do you use hand held meters? Just wondering out loud.

Thanks,

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

With B&W I can usually determine exposure accurately. I'm pretty accurate even with color slide film, but since I got a little Gossen Digisix meter I've been using that with my folders, since portability is part of the reason I usually am using a folding camera.

Regarding the lens haze issue, this can really make a big difference. I just had the uncoated Heliar on my Voigtlander Superb TLR cleaned, and it's like night and day.

 

[Ole]

I use the "debatometer": An internal debate process aimed at arriving at the correct exposure.

It even works, most of the time. Most of the overexposures can be explained away as "sticky shutter". The underexposures are generally due to my using the slowest realistically handheld time, and there just not being enough light.

All my folder lenses have been given a thorough cleaning and perform very well - with one exception:
I have a 135mm Rodenstock Eurynar that I'm going to give a thorough cleaning the next bad-weather day. At present it's nearly opaque, but still forms an image... And it's on a folder, a 9x12cm Rodenstock plate camera!

 

[rjs003]

I use a hand held meter. Usually after getting the first exposure reading from the meter I can calculate where I should be for the rest of the session. That is unless the situation changes drastically and then in that case it is back to the meter.

 

[127]

I've got a couple of weston masters: a II and a III. They seem to be still pretty accurate, and make a nice accompaniment to a classic camera. The needle is MUCH easier to work with than any digital meter - with digital I find you get a number, but then you meter again and get a different number. With analoge you immediatly get a feel for the range of measurements, as the needle moves around. (another classic example of a number giving you an answer which tells you nothing)

However 95% of the time I just "use my skill and judgement". I'm not particularly experienced but with a few basic rules, I rarely got something that's not workable. I get the meter out once in a while to make sure my mental estimate is calibrated (and visa versa!).

Ian

 

[rjs003]

Ok all you folder fans, If you had just $100. to spend on an old folder.Which one would it be and why?

 

[Jennyann]

I would go for a Voigtlander Perkeo. The Perkeo I gives good results, is very well made, about the smallest of the 6x6 folders and can be picked up for about £35. The photo I put into the gallery was taken on a Perkeo 1.

The Perkeo II and III are even better but you wouldn't get them for that kind of money.

Jenny.

 

[Ole]

Ok all you folder fans, If you had just $100. to spend on an old folder.Which one would it be and why?

Except for the Linhof, all of my folders have cost less than $100!

I'd try to get the best lens and shutter regardless of make. So in 6x4.5 I'd select my Zeiss Ikon Ikonta 521, with Tessar lens in Compur-rapid shutter. In 35mm something similar, Welta Welti, also Tessar in Compur. My 6x6 Voigtländer Perkeo I with Vaskar lens in Pronto shutter is hugely outperformed by these two.
My personal favorite is the Voigtländer Bergheil 9x12 plate camera. Mine has a Heliar lens in Compur shutter - you need a lot of luck to find one of these, and to find one for less than $100 is almost impossible.

 

[Seele]

My personal favorite is the Voigtländer Bergheil 9x12 plate camera. Mine has a Heliar lens in Compur shutter - you need a lot of luck to find one of these, and to find one for less than $100 is almost impossible.

Ole,

Only a few months ago I sold my Voigtlander 9X12 Avus with Skopar lens in Compur, and 120 rollfilm back to a friend who promptly put it into good use for professional works. It was practically in brand-new condition. only with the spring clip for the front frame finder broken. I think he was happy to pay the equivalence of US$50 for it.

 

[ksmattfish]

I've got quite a few MF folders in my collection, and if we're counting LF too, then I've got an Anniversary Graphic and a Super Graphic and a number of really old, bigger folding cameras.

Last year I ran around mostly with my Zeiss Ikonta C (6x9) with tessar lens. This year I've been shooting a lot with an Ansco Titan (6x6, looks a lot like a Speedex). It's just enough smaller than the Ikonta that it fits better in my pocket; I also love square prints. I used to drag a meter around too, but with the old shutter speeds (...25, 50, 100, 200, and 400) it just seemed to be begging to use "sunny 16". I'm almost always using it outside, and this has been working pretty well for me.

There are lot's of pics from my folders on my website, and some more info about the folding cameras I regularly use. Check out "the mushroom hunter"; that was taken just a few weeks ago with the Titan. I finally printed it last week.

Dead Link Removed

 

[pierre]

6x6 and 6x9 medium format folders have got to be the best kept secret in photography. If you can settle for the mid-range lenses like Novar, Apotar, Radionar, etc., you can get some excellent pictures if used properly, for very little money. Most people go for the Tessars and similar lenses, but in actual use, unless wide open, the difference is really marginal, if there's any at all. Plus, they are compact, and so simple that they are pure elegance. Despite having been doing photography since the early 1970's, and even before that using Instamatics and Polaroids, I can't say I had ever noticed or even heard of these MF folders until fairly recently, thanks to the Internet. Oh, I saw some in used camera shops sometimes, but I always thought they were just useless antique cameras. With today's films, they are anything but, and terrific fun to use. The beauty of these folders is the mechanical simplicity. Truly, they really live up to the concept of the camera as a holder for the film and the lens/shutter. Unlike TLR's, which are very complex beasts, prone to jamming that can send them in for expensive repairs, folders are dead simple, and little can go wrong with them. Moreover, the simple leaf shutter are fairly easy to have fixed if they do break. I have a cheap folder I paid only $30 bucks for, along with a cheap Holga, is the best fun I've ever had in photography. That $30 folder is a genuine, super nicely-built Zeiss-Ikon, with a Novar lens, and, believe me, it looks like it just came out of the factory brand new, and it makes a 6x9 negative that, with today's films, is as good as large format (it's not that much smaller, really). Now, if I could just ever afford to buy myself an Epson 3170, I would be in photography heaven with this and the Holga. I have a enlarger for 35mm, but upgrading it to handle 6x6 is cost prohibitive right now. Why so cheap? Because, I bypassed the Ikontas and the Tessar lenses, and grabbed a Nettar with Novar lens and simple Vario shutter. Also, no rangefinder, just guesstimate scale focussing - but that's part of the fun! I zone focus and make maximum use of the depth of field scale. No meter either. There is an undescribable satisfaction in nailing a picture with one of these, that is totally unlike the robot-like use of the modern autofocus 35 mm camera.

Get one and enjoy photography again. There are plenty out there. Look for Zeiss-Ikon Nettars and also Balda (Baldax), Franka (Solida) , Agfa (Isolette), etc., no to mention simple box cameras like the 6x9 Agfa Clack and the 6x6 Agfa Click (not folders, but still very useful and fun to use).

 

[ksmattfish]

I posted a shot taken with the Ansco Titan in the standard gallery.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I have a few folders myself, old folders and new folders, pocket cameras and LF's.

My most modern LF folder is a 4x5 Shen-Hao.

My most modern pocket folder is a Fuji 645.

I am very partial to the Zeiss folders and own several.

My most interesting Zeiss folder is an immaculate 1930's Zeiss Ikon Tropo Adoro 230/3 (Teak and Brown Leather) with a 10.5cm f4.5 Tessar in a Compur rim set shutter. This is a 9 x 6.5 cm format camera complete with 6 cut film holders. I have some Efke PL100 sheet film on order and will take a few shots with it.

 

[rjs003]

HELP!
I just purchased a Mamiya 6 folder, 1958 vintage.
What I need now is the instruction manual that goes with the camera. Does anyone have a manual that they would be willing to copy. I will gladly pay the cost of copying and any postage.
Thanks,
rjs

 

[wdemere]

Jurgen Kreckel/Certo6 has new web site

If you are interested in folders check out www.certo6.com. This is Jurgen Kreckel's website. He repairs and sells folders, and does a great job on them. I had a Zeiss Mess-Ikonta that was stolen from my car that he CLA'd that I wish I still had.