Fogged Efke IR820 sheet film

[BetterSense]

I have a 25 sheet box of Efke IR820 that I bought from Freestyle, and it came pre-fogged on 3 edges of the film. The odd things are, the top and bottom sheet were not fogged any differently, and it's the notch-end that is fogged, which is the end that fits INTO the bag. The edge that faces out of the light-proof bag is perfectly un-fogged. This leads me to think the film was fogged at the factory some how. Has anyone ever had this happen?

 

[Marco B]

Sounds to me you have leaking sheet holders, instead of fogged film. With the abundance of second hand holders, it is all to easy to buy a number of bad ones. After time, the holder's slit where the dark slide fits in, start to leak light. It usually shows up as "fog" / exposure signs along the top side of the negative, with possible further exposure in the corners and down the sides due to light piping in the negative.

Of the ten second hand holders I bought some 5 years ago, I had to throw away 3 because of this, and now have 2 others with one-side light leak problems...

I recommend you to write down the negative holder's number every time you make a photo, so you can spot problems easily and know which holder is to blame.

 

[Marco B]

I have a 25 sheet box of Efke IR820 that I bought from Freestyle, and it came pre-fogged on 3 edges of the film. The odd things are, the top and bottom sheet were not fogged any differently, and it's the notch-end that is fogged

Am I right you use the "notch-in-top-right-corner" rule to determine the emulsion site when inserting in your holders? If so, this is another possible indication of a holder problem, and not a film / manufacturing issue, as the fogged ends of your sheets were at the top side of the holder then, close to the leaking slits...

BY THE WAY:

You may not have noticed this issue before using normal film! Since you are working with ISO 3-6 probably for the Efke IR, your exposure times are far longer than normal, and thus the time the film has to get fogged while the darkslide is out...

 

[BetterSense]

Am I right you use the "notch-in-top-right-corner" rule to determine the emulsion site when inserting in your holders? If so, this is another possible indication of a holder problem, and not a film / manufacturing issue, as the fogged ends of your sheets were at the top side of the holder then, close to the leaking slits...

This isn't coherent. If I used the "notch-in-top-right-corner" rule (and I do), then that would put the notch end of the film farthest from the felt light trap. When I load film, the non-notched-short-end is the end that goes next to the felt light trap, and that edge is the only unfogged edge.

But it's not the film holders anyway....

I must not have been clear. Of course at first I suspected leaky holders or a leaky camera back. But then I noticed that the edge near the light trap was the UN-fogged edge. I also noticed that the film was fogged on the rebate area. So I developed film that never went into holders at all.

I have eliminated the holders as a source of the fogging by developing film straight out of the Efke bag, without ever putting it in a holder.

All of the sheets are fogged in the same pattern. The long sides, and the notch end are fogged. The notch end is the end that fits INTO the bag, so the end facing out of the bag is unfogged. The top and bottom sheets were not fogged any differently than sheets taken from the middle of the stack. These facts lead me to conclude that the film came fogged this way.

When I load sheet film, I never take the whole stack of film out of the light-proof bag...I just slide sheets out of it one at a time. If there was a source of IR light in my darkroom, it still would not explain why the edge of the film that faces the opening of the bag is unfogged, while the notch end, which is the end furthest into the bag, is fogged.

 

[Marco B]

I must not have been clear. Of course at first I suspected leaky holders or a leaky camera back. But I have eliminated the holders as a source of the fogging by developing film straight out of the Efke bag, without ever putting it in a holder.

All of the sheets are fogged in the same pattern. The long sides, and the notch end are fogged. The notch end is the end that fits INTO the bag, so the end facing out of the bag is unfogged. The top and bottom sheets were not fogged any differently than sheets taken from the middle of the stack. These facts lead me to conclude that the film came fogged this way.

Time to return the film pack to the manufacturer, or re-claim your money at the shop you bought it...

 

[BetterSense]

I'll call Freestyle later on lunch. I was just wondering, maybe there was a batch of bad Efke going around and I didn't know about it.

 

[Marco B]

This isn't coherent. If I used the "notch-in-top-right-corner" rule (and I do), then that would put the notch end of the film farthest from the felt light trap. When I load film, the non-notched-short-end is the end that goes next to the felt light trap, and that edge is the only unfogged edge.

Depends on what you call the "top" of the holder...

For me, the top is the end where the dark slide goes in, as that is how it is positioned in my Tachihara camera when shooting, so the "top" is the end of the holder with the felt light trap. But it seems you use it the other way around, and of course, you are just as right! Anyway, with a reversible back that can be used "up-side-down" and sideways on my camera, the issue of what the top-side of a holder is, is getting completely fluid... :confused:

By the way, I also use the "lower-left-corner-notch-rule", so, for me, the notches are also on the "bottom" side of the holder, that is, where the film goes in, so that you can easily check what film is in the holder whenever you forget it, without having to remove the sheet entirely.

I'll call Freestyle later on lunch. I was just wondering, maybe there was a batch of bad Efke going around and I didn't know about it.

Seems like a sensible thing to do, since you excluded holder failure...

 

[BetterSense]

I contacted Freestyle about the film, but since I was past the 30-day warantee period, the representative said there wasn't much they could do.

I re-ordered another $40 box of IR film. I would have tried a box of Rollei, but I know Efke works with my homemade IR filter well. Using the new box of film, I took a test shot of my back yard and what do you know, it's fogged in exactly the same pattern as the last film!

I thought this was impossible because I was extra special careful when I loaded this time! I developed some sheets straight from the NEW bag, and yep, fogged, in exactly the same pattern.

I thought, the only explanation is there is a rouge IR source in my darkroom that is capable of tunneling into lightproof plastic bags and selectively fogging IR film in strange patterns, so I took 3 sheets of the stuff out of the black bag, and set it out in my darkroom, and left it there for over an hour. When I developed it, it was fogged in the same 3-edge pattern, and the center of the film was still crystal-clear. Obviously that could not happen if IR from my darkroom was causing it! The edge-fogging is the same whether I slip a sheet out of the black bag and immediately develop it, or if I leave it sit out for a hour and then develop it.

So, what about everyone else that is buying this film? Am I the only one that has bought film from this emulsion number?

 

[Marco B]

So, what about everyone else that is buying this film? Am I the only one that has bought film from this emulsion number?

Bettersense, IR film is already a niche product, and 4x5 IR even more so. It might be a while before someone else reports here.

However, seeing all the checks you've done, and since you now even bought a second fogged pack, I wouldn't put up with Freestyle's "30 day" return policy, and request a refund for both fogged packages.

At the same time, it seems you would do good to try and contact Efke.

Manufacturers do screw up once in a while, although it is not common. However, last year, Gandolfi (Emil Schildt), reported about fogged Foma liquid emulsion that was sold in large 1 litre canisters with a partially transparent blue(!) lid instead of a proper black one.

He eventually got that recognized as a genuine manufacturers fault by Foma...

See this APUG thread:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Marco

 

[mopar_guy]

Hmm, maybe I could cut the 4x5 down to 3-1/4x4-1/4 and it would be OK. Efke should send me all of this film so that I could "repair" it.

 

[Toffle]

Hmm, maybe I could cut the 4x5 down to 3-1/4x4-1/4 and it would be OK. Efke should send me all of this film so that I could "repair" it.

I have not shot the Efke 4x5, but there has been considerable talk of QC with their other films. It may be worth your while to contact Efke in person rather than Freestyle. Depending on how badly fogged the film is, and since you have ruled out your holders as an issue, you can adjust your composition to compensate for the lost film. Back in June I accidentally fogged a crucial sheet of 4x5, (my own fault) but still managed to get a fairly useable print through cropping... not what I would have preferred, as it is not the scene as I composed it, but it saved me a 6 hour drive to try to recreate the shot.

 

[BetterSense]

True; if I was willing to crop maybe 1/2" from the top, bottom, and notch-end, the film would be usable, but I'm not quite willing to put up with that without getting some kind of discount. I've talked to Freestyle and I'm sure they will credit me, but I'm not sure what to do about replacement since there isn't really any other option in 4x5 IR film.

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

@ Bettersense : Rollei IR does exist in 4x5!

 

[Toffle]

True; if I was willing to crop maybe 1/2" from the top, bottom, and notch-end, the film would be usable, but I'm not quite willing to put up with that without getting some kind of discount. I've talked to Freestyle and I'm sure they will credit me, but I'm not sure what to do about replacement since there isn't really any other option in 4x5 IR film.

Yes, that would be some pretty drastic cropping. However, lacking a better solution, I would use that option as opposed to cutting it down. Expose full-frame and let your crop be your cut.

A note to Freestyle, cc'd to Efke might be your ticket to properly tested film. (and test it yourself before the 30 day warrantee period)

Cheers,