Focusing cloth vs Folding Hood- Thoughts/ recommendations

[Grafmatic]

A while back, I bought an Intrepid 4 x 5 and assembled a system thanks in good part to excellent advice and guidance I received on these forums.
Unfortunately, I was greeted shortly after finishing assembling my system with a leukemia diagnosis so I’ve done very little with this system. My prognosis is fairly good, so I hope to be back behind the glass before too long.

Partly just because, and partly because of my condition, I always seem to be on a quest to save weight wherever possible. One option I am considering is buying the focusing hood accessory so I can shave off a couple pounds compared to carrying around a focusing cloth. But I am noticing that, while the fresnel screen makes the screen look brighter and more even, it actually makes focusing a little ambiguous. I was just wondering annyone has experience with focusing hoods versus focusing cloths, and whether the hood makes it harder to see the corners properly without a Fresnel screen.

I see the hood more on press type cameras, and I had a crown graphic when I started out, but it is long gone. So I am reaching out to the helpful folks here, of which there are quite a few!

 

[BrianShaw]

Best wishes for a strong recovery from leukemia!

I've used the pop-up hood on a couple of Speed Graphic cameras. They are good for quick-and-dirty but don't really provide a lot of shading. So the viewing quality depends upon both the amount and angle of ambient lighting. Plus, they often make getting a loupe onto the glass more challenging. For most LF camera usage a darkcloth might be better since it can be wrapped to eliminate more extraneous light. And the good part is that they really don't weigh much. Actually, neither really weighs much.

Some folks have reported using focusing viewers like this. To me, that's often overkill and weighty.

Fotodiox Pro Arca Swiss 4x5 Right Angle View Finder Hood - Collapsible Focusing Monocular, Reflex Hood & Groundglass Cover with Magnifying Eyepiece Viewer for Arca Swiss 4x5 Large Format View Camera

Fotodiox Pro Arca Swiss 4x5 Right Angle View Finder Hood - Collapsible Focusing Monocular, Reflex Hood & Groundglass Cover with Magnifying Eyepiece Viewer for Arca Swiss 4x5 Large Format View Camera

fotodioxpro.com

 

[Chuck1]

Glad to hear it's a good (relatively) prognosis
hope you get back out soon
A dark cloth is probably the lightest solution
I have the linhof mirrored focus device,
It's not heavy but it is bulky,
The folding device mentioned above also tend to be pricey (as well as heavy and overkill)

 

[grahamp]

A nylon focus cloth for 4x5 is going to weight 8-12oz at most. A double sided cotton one is going to weigh several time more.

I need to be able to get a loupe calibrated for my eyes onto the screen, so a hood does not really suit. A really dark surround makes focusing so much easier.

 

[Franswa]

Are you using a loupe as well? Personally I find the cloth to be more effective over a hood in most of the situations I shoot in. Happy to hear your prognosis is fairly good, and will hopefully continue to improve.

 

[blee1996]

When I go out ultra lightweight with my 4x5 or 8x10, I just carry a lightweight REI raincoat. It is black on one side and silver on the other, and water proof while breathable. It is both multi-functional and very lightweight. It packed down very compact as well.

 

[Grafmatic]

When I go out ultra lightweight with my 4x5 or 8x10, I just carry a lightweight REI raincoat. It is black on one side and silver on the other, and water proof while breathable. It is both multi-functional and very lightweight. It packed down very compact as well.

Great idea!

Are you using a loupe as well? Personally I find the cloth to be more effective over a hood in most of the situations I shoot in. Happy to hear your prognosis is fairly good, and will hopefully continue to improve.

Way back when, I used a loupe with adjustable focus which turned out to be a really bad idea. I have an eye doctor appointment not far off and I’m gonna explain him what focusing distance I need and get a pair of magnifying eyeglasses for my eyes and that distance. Either way, I think the fresnel will go. I tried it with a high-powered laser pointer as a focusing aid, and got a lot of reflections.

 

[Chuck1]

A bight focusing screen might be another option
I have a beattie I'm very fond of

 

[Grafmatic]

Back in a more flush time, when I had my Linhof Technikardan, I had the best focusing aid IME- it was essentially a bag bellows with a frame on one side which attached to the camera and a focusing loupe on the other end. It worked great , lightweight and virtually completely light tight. Unfortunately, I sold that camera way back when and don’t have a Linhof budget these days.

Chuck1, I looked into your suggestion… price is on those screens seem to be about $200 and up, kind of hearted justify for a budget camera, but thanks nonetheless

 

[MTGseattle]

Way back when, I made my own dark cloth and the thing weighed 4 pounds. I left it on the roof of my car after one session and that was that.
I own one of the Quietworks "Black jacket" hybrids which would work for 5x7 and 4x5. They seem to be a love/hate item for people. It's reasonably light and comes with a small stuff sack.
When I jumped to 8x10 I bought one of the lightweight focusing cloths off of ebay. I think it's an eTone brand. I had done a brief search for goretex and the like and couldn't get the pieces of fabric for less than I paid for a finished product.
The spare packable rain jacket is also a great idea.

BLACKJACKET(TM) FOCUSING CLOTH, HOME PAGE

eTone Dark Cloth Focusing Hood Waterproof For 4x5 Large Format Camera Wrapping | eBay

This dark cloth is designed to shield excess light from the outside, making you more convenient with focus, concentrate on the composition. Material: It is made of fabric cloth, it's light weight, only 302g(0.67 lb).

www.ebay.com

in another thought, if Intrepid uses a 2-part ground glass and fresnel system, are yours installed in the proper order? It seems like there are instances across many manufacturers of them being reversed which can cause problems.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

When I go out ultra lightweight with my 4x5 or 8x10, I just carry a lightweight REI raincoat. It is black on one side and silver on the other, and waterproof while breathable. It is both multi-functional and very lightweight. It packed down very compact as well.

This seems like a good double-duty solution. FWIW, I carry a dark cloth made of lightweight Gore-Tex lined with a black non-slip fabric. It comes in handy for covering the camera during sudden rainstorms and crashing sneaker waves too, since it's waterproof. It weighs less than a pound and rolls up quite small. Focusing hoods don't really allow you to get the loupe into the corners. Even regular viewing with a loupe necessitates a loupe with a long skirt.

Best,

Doremus

 

[DREW WILEY]

I have two kinds of darkcloths. The bigger one for my 8X10 is black Goretex fabric (now hard to find), relatively lightweight, breathable, waterproof, very durable, easy to clean, and best of all, no lint! The lighter version for sake of my lightwt 4x5 kit, is sewn ripstop nylon white on one side and black on the other.

There are also semi-waterproof Tyvek-like truck wrap fabrics black on one side and white on the other. Huge quantities of these end up in recycle bins at flatbed trucking warehouses and lumber yards. It's a wonder that nobody has picked up the clue yet. Also easy to clean with no lint issues.

 

[abruzzi]

When I got my first LF camera, I just used an old black t-shirt. Put the neck of the t-shirt around the ground glass, put your head through the waist to see the screen, and use the arms if you need to access anything. The t-shirt isn't exactly light tight, but it is light. Then I discovered the BlackJacket above took that idea and improved on it. I've used one and its pretty good, but in the end I use a simple Harrison.

I have some issues with it (the silver outside and black inside are not held together except at the edges which makes them fiddly to use) but the issue I have with a lot of others is they seem designed to stretch or wrap over the rear standard. I've found that very fiddly because of placement of controls and other things on the rear standard. With the Harrison, I just loosely drape the front of the Harrison over middle of the bellows and velcro it to itself under the bellows. Its much quicker and far less likely pull off or get in the way when adjusting movements or focusing. Then when everything is adjusted I separate the velcro pull the cloth back and velcro around my neck and wear it like a cape while I load the film holder, set the shutter and aperture, and take the picture.

 

[Grafmatic]

Way back when, I made my own dark cloth and the thing weighed 4 pounds. I left it on the roof of my car after one session and that was that.
I own one of the Quietworks "Black jacket" hybrids which would work for 5x7 and 4x5. They seem to be a love/hate item for people. It's reasonably light and comes with a small stuff sack.
When I jumped to 8x10 I bought one of the lightweight focusing cloths off of ebay. I think it's an eTone brand. I had done a brief search for goretex and the like and couldn't get the pieces of fabric for less than I paid for a finished product.
The spare packable rain jacket is also a great idea.

BLACKJACKET(TM) FOCUSING CLOTH, HOME PAGE

eTone Dark Cloth Focusing Hood Waterproof For 4x5 Large Format Camera Wrapping | eBay

This dark cloth is designed to shield excess light from the outside, making you more convenient with focus, concentrate on the composition. Material: It is made of fabric cloth, it's light weight, only 302g(0.67 lb).

www.ebay.com

in another thought, if Intrepid uses a 2-part ground glass and fresnel system, are yours installed in the proper order? It seems like there are instances across many manufacturers of them being reversed which can cause problems.

 

[Grafmatic]

A nylon focus cloth for 4x5 is going to weight 8-12oz at most. A double sided cotton one is going to weigh several time more.

I need to be able to get a loupe calibrated for my eyes onto the screen, so a hood does not really suit. A really dark surround makes focusing so much easier.

I have experimented with a laser pointer aimed at the subject. I could see reflections from both the fresnel and ground glass.

 

[Grafmatic]

in another thought, if Intrepid uses a 2-part ground glass and fresnel system, are yours installed in the proper order? It seems like there are instances across many manufacturers of them being reversed which can cause problems.

Mine was installed at the factory and the smooth sides of both the ground glass and fresnel screen facing the rear which I believe is correct.

 

[Vaughn]

I spend a lot of time per image under the darkcloth and like it dark, so a little more weight is worth it. I like my Calumet black/white darkcloths. Warm in the Winter, and not too hot in the desert.

I have cut corners on most my cameras' GGs. Nice when using lenses of minimal coverage. They would be difficult to use with hoods.

 

[Paul Howell]

My Crown and Speed have focusing hoods, I use the rangefinder to set the distance and the ground for composition. With my very old and battered New View I use a focusing cloth and loop to insure focus. I use my Crown and speed when hiking so the hood works well enough, other wise the dark cloth takes bit more work to pull out, get into position, and then to find the loop. So, depends on far you are from the car, how much gear you have to lug.

 

[wiltw]

The higher the ambient temperature, the less desirable is a darkcloth IMHO, particularly when ambient >85F and it is sunny while shooting outside.

I compared my darkcloth to the folding binocular reflex finder that fits my 4x5 monorail, and the difference is just under 16oz... the finder is about 2x the weight of the darkcloth, roughly 15oz vs. 31oz. The binocular reflex finder is much preferred in heat, or if there is any wind! And when the camera position is high looking downward,at anhy angle or is very low to the ground (and the ground is at all wet or is dusty). In fact, my darkcloth is really only a 'backup' for the event that the binocular magnifying finder is ever usable (accidentally broken)

 

[abruzzi]

I have both the Sinar monocular (which uses a bag bellows), and an Arca Swiss binocular, and I can definitely appreciate the benefits, but in both cases I feel like the magnification a little too low for me. I don't need crazy high magnification--my favorite loupe is the cheap Toyo 3.6x (I have three of them)--but the Sinar and Arca Swiss seem closer to 2x. They are great for composition though. The Sinar one is limited to Sinar cameras because it attaches using the bellows frame, but the Arca Swiss just has an elastic band so it can stretch over many different cameras.

 

[Sharktooth]

You usually only see focusing hoods on hand-held cameras with rangefinders. I'm talking Speed/Crown Graphics and Linhof Technikas. The hood is mainly an afterthought, since the main purpose is actually to protect the ground glass when you're shooting hand-held with a separate finder. The hood is basically useless for focusing on the ground glass, since it just can't block enough external light. Your forehead with bang into the upper flap, and it's almost impossible to get a loupe in there to focus. The hood just gets in the way when you want to use a dark cloth, so it becomes a problem just being there.

 

[Grafmatic]

in another thought, if Intrepid uses a 2-part ground glass and fresnel system, are yours installed in the proper order? It seems like there are instances across many manufacturers of them being reversed which can cause problems.

Mine was installed at the factory and the smooth sides of both the ground glass and fresnel screen facing the rear which I believe is correct.

 

[MTGseattle]

Ok. I Think you would have to contact intrepid to verify. In all the data I've looked at, the most important thing is that the photographer is actually focusing on/at what becomes the film plane when the holder is inserted. it seems there have been various "opinions" on how this is achieved by the many camera builders over the years. Graflex has pretty specific instructions regarding cameras that feature the "ektalight" screen/Fresnel. It also seems like most Fresnel screens are plastic which would not be the best thing to place and move one's loupe around on.

 

[Grafmatic]

The fresnel faces inwards against the focusing screen so a loupe would never touch that surface. The focusing surface and the Fresnel surface are separated by the thickness of the groundglass.

 

[gealto2]

I see the hood more on press type cameras, and I had a crown graphic when I started out, but it is long gone. So I am reaching out to the helpful folks here, of which there are quite a few!

My favorite is to use an old dark T-shirt. Combined with a white T-shirt on the outside is better in the summer sun for a while until the lack of ventilation gets you. Put you head through the neck hole and scrunch it up to wear it like a collar away from camera. At camera, pull the waist around the back of the camera with a clothes pin at the bottom and put a hand with magnifier through an arm hole. This makes an extremely dark, light weight dark surround that completely encloses you. Also very wind proof. I have a 34 inch waist, so can fit 4x5 or 5x7. You may need a larger or smaller size depending on your camera or body.

I also have a diy right angle finder for 4x5 that I keep messing with but rarely use.