Flying with film...effect of Delta 'bomber'?

RalphLambrecht · Dec 30, 2009

Uncle Goose said:
what we need to do is to throw all these ridiculous security measures overboard and start being normal people again instead of overly scared lemmings. Air plane bombings and hijacking is nothing new, it's just overblown by the media. Where there is a will there is a way, even for terrorists. Few days ago here in Belgium a mad man succeeded in just walking towards a plane on the airfield after he jumped the fence, just imagine what a well trained terrorist might achieve, airfields have become big in size meaning it's almost impossible to control all that space.

But without terrorism, how would the government justify to control us?

As Mark said, how much freedom are you willing to give up to be free?

BetterSense · Dec 30, 2009

Why is Fedex a preferred method?

Normally I fly with several small cameras, my Speed Graphic, and 10 film holders in my backpack 'personal item'. When I flew out, they took my Speed Graphic aside and ran a magical divining scepter over it. Apparently it was free of demons. But I understand if the magical divining analyzer beeps, then they get to keep your item, and they can't retest because of the false negative rate. Considering that I have been shooting and hunting several times on this trip, and photographing same, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was gunshot residue somewhere on my equipment.

ajmiller · Dec 30, 2009

On a trip to Paris in November, at Liverpool Airport, the 'magical divining scepter' found a trace of something on my Mamiya C330s. They re-tested and again the 'magic divining analyzer' tested positive. Five people surrounded me and my camera and the head honcho looked at me, then at the camera and back at me.
"What, exactly, is it?" he said.
" A camera!" I say
"Professional or personal use?"
"Both" I say
"Have you cleaned it recently" he says
"Yes, two days ago with vinegar based window cleaner" (Don't ask....)
A big sigh of relief all round, a few forms filled out ( on which my wife saw 'TNT' on the top) and off I went with camera and film in bag.
I'm now probably on some database somewhere for suspected terrorists - the worlds gone bleedin' mad.
Happy New Year!

BetterSense · Dec 30, 2009

Sounds like a good tip. I'll be sure to mention something about vinegar stop bath or something if that happens to me. Any ideas what demonic properties vinegar has that trip the magical divining sceptors?

rpsawin · Dec 30, 2009

ajmiller said:
On a trip to Paris in November, at Liverpool Airport, the 'magical divining scepter' found a trace of something on my Mamiya C330s. They re-tested and again the 'magic divining analyzer' tested positive. Five people surrounded me and my camera and the head honcho looked at me, then at the camera and back at me.
"What, exactly, is it?" he said.
" A camera!" I say
"Professional or personal use?"
"Both" I say
"Have you cleaned it recently" he says
"Yes, two days ago with vinegar based window cleaner" (Don't ask....)
A big sigh of relief all round, a few forms filled out ( on which my wife saw 'TNT' on the top) and off I went with camera and film in bag.
I'm now probably on some database somewhere for suspected terrorists - the worlds gone bleedin' mad.
Happy New Year!

I had a similar experience flying out of New Orleans (Sping of the year Katrina hit). Somehow my gear bag picked up gunpower residue, probably when I was in the French Quarter. I spent an hour and a half backed into a corner and blocked by three TSA agents while another checked, rechecked and cross checked my gear and film.

Since that time my luggage gets tossed by TSA every time I fly. They leave some idiot notice in my bag to let me know my bag was searched by them. Oddly, I don't feel any safer....

Best regards,

Bob

dwdmguy · Dec 30, 2009

Once we begin mailing or Fedex'ing our film back the Terrorists have won.

dwdmguy · Dec 30, 2009

Speak of the devil, several buildings are now being evactuated in Times Square because of a Parked Van.
What a world we live in......

Steve Smith · Dec 30, 2009

dwdmguy said:
Once we begin mailing or Fedex'ing our film back the Terrorists have won.

In my opinion, mailing the film back to yourself sounds like a goods idea even in the absence of the current 'anti-terrorism' measures.

Steve.

removed-user-1 · Dec 30, 2009

Q.G. said:
Part of those workings of terrorism is what we read above, someone saying that the guy didn't even had a passport.
It was checked more than once, and he did. He also had a valid U.S. visum, allowing entry to the U.S.

This was reported in the news at the time I made my post. You are correct that more recent reports have given us more accurate information. I think my point was actually that security didn't work, something that is certainly true (regardless of the particulars). I hope it all blows over and that the current administration doesn't go overboard with what some are calling "security theater." The media coverage will probably not help, unfortunately.

Here is a related story about spreading FUD. One of my wife's coworkers is seriously worried about her Pyrex blowing up, due to a change in the formula. The number of incidents involving Pyrex exploding if mishandled is minuscule in comparison to the number of Pyrex dishes used safely every day. It's something like 1 in 500,000 (one is more likely to be struck by lightning than injured by exploding Pyrex).

Robert Hall · Dec 30, 2009

BetterSense said:
Sounds like a good tip. I'll be sure to mention something about vinegar stop bath or something if that happens to me. Any ideas what demonic properties vinegar has that trip the magical divining sceptors?

One would think with vinegar and window cleaner (ammonia?) might just cancel each other out but with all the strange things they put in cleaners now days, hard to tell.

I routinely walk through security with film in my pockets (loose pockets in pants that one could hide a small child) in 120 size with never a second look.

On the other hand I have had some twit want to open each roll from its foil package as well.

Power in the hands of the ignorant, that's what scares me.

papagene · Dec 30, 2009

Monday I flew back from San Diego to Hartford and had no problems with Security concerning the film I carried in my camera bag and my satchel. I had 10 rolls of 120 film and three boxes of 5x7. Security was more concerned with people's electronics.
But my pants damn near fell off when I had to take off my belt!!

gene

dmr · Dec 30, 2009

I flew just 2 days after the jerk tried to blow up the plane. The only thing I noticed is that when I asked for a hand inspection of film, he swabbed off EACH AND EVERY roll and ran them through that Nasty Stuff Detect-O-Matic machine. Usually they just eyeball the bag of film and maybe spot check 1-2 rolls.

C A Sugg · Dec 30, 2009

If I'm flying with film, chances are it's bulk loaded. So far that hasn't drawn undue scrutiny. But, now I don't know.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 30, 2009

dwdmguy said:
Once we begin mailing or Fedex'ing our film back the Terrorists have won.

I feel that way every time I have to go through airport security. I don't know if they have won, but they sure have changed western society.

Ian David · Dec 30, 2009

Uncle Goose said:
what we need to do is to throw all these ridiculous security measures overboard and start being normal people again instead of overly scared lemmings. Air plane bombings and hijacking is nothing new, it's just overblown by the media. Where there is a will there is a way, even for terrorists.

I assume you are referring to the more obviously ridiculous measures (only plastic cutlery, no tweezers, etc). You don't really believe that most airport security is currently pointless, do you?

The following propositions seem pretty clear to me:
1. Airport security will never catch every nutjob that really wants to blow up an airliner. Humans are inventive and it is just not (practically) possible to search every nook and cranny for every possibly suspect substance.
2. The main functions of airport security seem to be (a) to make it extremely hard to bring down an airliner the easy way (ie guns, conventional explosives, etc); (b) to deter nutjobs from attempting more inventive methods, in case they get caught; and (c) to make the public feel safer.
3. The actual application of airport security measures is essentially in the hands of goons who will make mistakes (and therefore also probably cannot be given too much discretion).
4. When someone does get through the net, there will always be a knee-jerk over-reaction because (a) it sells papers; (b) it helps politicians look like they are doing something useful; and (c) the public don't think hard enough to realise that someone will occasionally get through whatever security measures are dreamed up.
5. If airport security was removed today, so that we could all go back to flying free of restrictions, there would be quite a few airliners in the drink before the nutjobs got sick of martyring themselves.

Boxes or canisters of film should probably go through the X-ray, like everything else. Until recently, there has been some care taken to ensure that the hand-baggage machines do not ruin film. Whether that will remain the case as film-users become scarcer and knees jerk harder, I don't know. If flying to the US now, I would just buy my film there and probably get it processed there too before I left.

Ian

Rich Ullsmith · Dec 30, 2009

Any new complications for flying with IR film?

I've been saving a handful of HIE rolls for a trip to New Orleans in April. Has anybody had to deal with airport security since December 25?

JLP · Dec 30, 2009

Just back from a trip to DK. The hightened security measures are more related to visual inspection of all carry on luggage and a quick but free Swedish massage. I did not notice any difference in the carry on scanning but have not yet developed film so can't tell for sure.

Rich Ullsmith · Dec 30, 2009

I'm just wondering if they are going to want to open the cannisters. I know that that they open sealed packaged films, but that will destroy HIE if they open the cannisters. I always get a hand-inspect, but they still open everything up.

JLP · Dec 30, 2009

I had several rolls of 120 film and film back's for my RZ67 but they did not open anything. Could be that the guy knew a little about cameras and film, the next one may not know and could open or demand it opened.
Not a good time to travel with film so good luck if you take the chance.

Pinholemaster · Dec 30, 2009

Ship your IR film back via FedEx. They will x-ray the film, but not open the canisters.

Rich Ullsmith · Dec 30, 2009

I'm not worried about bringing it home. The leader will be wound up in the cannister. Getting there is the problem. I have flown with it before, and they seemed to be familiar with the concept of opening the container will destroy the roll. In the new environment, I can't see them accepting the idea of, sorry, please don't open that. If this is a TSA issue, I guess I can just go down to the airport and ask. Or write a request maybe.

Guillaume Zuili · Dec 31, 2009

I just flew from LAX to Paris. They X-Ray film as usual. Didn't open anything.

cmo · Dec 31, 2009

At least we don't have to think about 'what should I wear'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millimeter_wave_scanner

Just fly naked

MolBasser · Dec 31, 2009

I just love the "You can't get up in the last hour of the flight" rule.

WTF? Joe Nutjob is just gonna blow the plane up earlier.

The clowns that the TSA hires to do security at airports aren't paid enough to care and only get serious after an event like this happens.

I don't advocate dropping security altogether, but let's understand the concept better. There will ALWAYS be a way to bring a plane down with the properly motivated nutjob. Having reasonable security is fine, over reaction is going to far for my libertarian tendencies.

I'm prolly screwed when I go to Ethiopia next week, as I have carried gunpowder and reloading supplies recently in my backpack and I'm not sure if washing it is going to help. Sigh.

Oh, and to the point, I don't think currently the situation calls for mailing, but given the potential for serious stupidity, it is probably the prudent call.

MolBasser

benjiboy · Dec 31, 2009

ajuk said:
I don't understand why my ticket costs the same and I am only allowed the same luggage allowance as somebody who weighs a lot more than me.

It's because the F.A.A aren't capable of such logical thought.

Flying with film...effect of Delta 'bomber'?

removed-user-1

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