FKD film holders

Marttiko · Sep 4, 2016

I bought an FKD 13x18 two days ago. It's made in 1980 and it seems that it hasn't been used before.

Yesterday I loaded some paper in it and tried it out. I developed the negatives today and it seems that film holders (actually they're plate holders, I just put some glassplates and paper in them) doesn't work. They hold film allright, but they also leak light in. I knew that Soviet products are far from top quality, but who should have guessed that film holder is made of material which let's light through? Two of the negatives have checkerboard pattern like that in film holders... Cardboard which separates two filmcompartments may be also leaking. The two negatives have some papery pattern also. Negatives are drying now, but I will post pictures later.

These are plastic film holders. Are wooden ones better quality? I wouldn't want to modify the camera if it's not necessary, because it's unused.

Marttiko · Sep 4, 2016

It seems that pictures one and three are better than two and four. Checkerboard pattern from film holder (or lens board, but I think that's unlikely) is visible only in number four.

I forgot pen and paper home so I couldn't keep notes, but they were all shot with 2-3 minutes of exposure. I think number one was with f/22, two and four f/8 and three maybe f/11. Pictures are in order which I shot them. It's odd that only other side of both holders have this problem while the other side looks fine in that respect, though number three has bad light leaks on edges.

What do you think?

Maybe I should just load film holders, put them outside for ten minutes and develop them.

AgX · Sep 4, 2016

In case the plateholders are actually translucent, why not just paint/spray them with opaque varnish?

AgX · Sep 4, 2016

Can you show us the plateholders too?

Marttiko · Sep 4, 2016

They are black and don't seem very translucent, but maybe matt black spray paint could help.

TheToadMen · Sep 4, 2016

Marttiko said:
(...) but who should have guessed that film holder is made of material which let's light through? Two of the negatives have checkerboard pattern like that in film holders...

I had the same problem with my FKD18x24 for the first time now. It's the same camera, just a bit larger. I also had the checkerboard pattern on my negatives - a pattern that is the same as the dark slides.
I wasn't sure if it was caused by light-leaking-through-the-slide or during exposure. I had been wandering around on a very sunny day, carrying the camera with filmholder and tripod on my shoulder in the field in the full sun. So it might be true that the plastic dark slide isn't light proof indeed - at least not in full sun light.

I'm still planning on testing this, by loading a film holder in complete darkness with photo paper, put it in direct sunlight for 30 minutes or so and then develop the paper.

I have also a few film holders with wooden slides, but haven't tried these yet.

onre · Sep 4, 2016

Matt black spray won't help here. I've used similar holders for exposing paper without a problem.

AgX · Sep 4, 2016

-) Why would spray varnishing not help? (actually it even does not need to be matte spray...)

-) I see a checkerboard structure only in one image, and only because I got hinted at by the text.

A test would be easy: set a patch of aluminium foil on a holder, load it and expose under strong light.

Marttiko · Sep 4, 2016

You're right, it's only in one.

I put some sealing between camera back and film holder as it seemed little loose. Pictures two and four show quite a similar light leaks even if they are different holders. I thought that maybe it's not only holders which are leaking...

I might try that foil-thing tomorrow.

Marttiko · Sep 6, 2016

I loaded the holders with paper, put them outside, waited 15 minutes, turned them over and waited another 15 min. One of the holders had quite a bad leakage. Sky was very cloudy, I wonder what would happen to fast film in direct sunlight... I know that at least two of the four slides are bad. Maybe it would be easiest to make new darkslides for all of them. They are very simple pieces of plastic after all.

shutterfinger · Sep 6, 2016

If you have Plasti Dip or similar product in your area a thin coat will make the darkslides light tight. A .12 to .2 millimeter coat will be sufficient.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Plasti-Dip-11-oz-Black-Rubber-Coating-Spray-11203-6/100131010

AgX · Sep 6, 2016

But still I wonder what happened here from the beginning.
We know of quality control issues and may be issues of materials supply. But nobody would design a plateholder for a commercial camera that is not light tight.
Is there a varnish on that plastic? Maybe a varnish with dyes in place of pigments was used, or the same with the plastic.

Marttiko · Sep 7, 2016

It is puzzling. First I thought that the pattern on the slides has been cut too deep, but it's not. Material is faulty. I don't know if it's the age of the holders or were they like that when they were made. Especially that little round area in the center of slides let's light through.

I bought black spray paint. I'm not sure if that's enough, so first I'm going to paint a sheet of paper to see how many layers is needed for light not to pass through.

btaylor · Sep 7, 2016

Unused, new FSU camera parts defective, manufactured wrong? How could that be?!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I have a great deal of FSU camera gear, both still and motion picture, much of it intended for professional work. There are lots of defects. When that gear was current there was an army of technicians that modified and corrected the mistakes made at the manufacturer. With some massaging, most of that gear works pretty well, especially the optics. If you are patient and diligent I think you'll work it out and get some great photos.

Marttiko · Sep 7, 2016

I own a soviet motorcycle from the early 60's. That's where I have become familiar with soviet "quality". Even many original spare parts must be machined to fit well. In fact I realized that it's new camera because it was unusable in some respects. If it had been used, it would have been made to work.

It's odd that country with hi-tech space program couldn't make light tight glass plate holders that are light tight or hold glass plates. Other holder had badly finished rivet which I had to file to get glass plate fit. My glass plates may have been thicker than soviet plates though.

Marttiko · Oct 24, 2016

I got new plate holders from the store I bought FKD from. Same thing happened again. Is this a frustrating coincidence or are these holders in general this bad? Are wooden ones better?

TheToadMen · Oct 24, 2016

Marttiko said:
I got new plate holders from the store I bought FKD from. Same thing happened again. Is this a frustrating coincidence or are these holders in general this bad? Are wooden ones better?

View attachment 165879

I guess so. I have the same problem with the plastic slides, but not with the wooden slides.

emkadeka · Nov 29, 2019

It's some time since the original post, I know, but I'm sure there are people with FKDs, such as myself that have experienced the same light leaks from the plastic holders. well, I think I found a cure. firstly I find it quite impossible to believe that the plastic might lose its light masking abilities, but I had very similar patterns on my negatives, so I started to think where else light might enter, so my theory is this - light actually enters through the slide slot at the end of the slide door and bounces off the reflective surface of the slide within the holder. so I dismantled the end that holds the slides to the holder body and fair enough there were remnants of some velvet cord. I replaced both velvet strips with similar ones and - voila, no more light streaks on the negative of that particular holder. so I suggest you do it too, esp as the holders are at least 30 years old or 40 in my case..

Ron (Netherlands) · Dec 1, 2019

Even when using holders and a camera that are light tight:
1. always keep your holders in a light tight bag when not in use;
2. always put a dark cloth over the back of the camera and the holder when using a holder in the camera and also when the slide is out;
3. never take the slide fully out, but always leave a little piece inside;

If with this practise you still have unwanted light, you should check on the seals where the slides slide into the holder;
in most cases these are torn / gone and should be replaced.

and ..yes plastic can lose its characteristics under influence of UV light

emkadeka · Dec 1, 2019

all of these are good advice and I can actually think of another mod that might help. the slides are reflective inside. I think if you made them matte somehow, that would also help.

xya · Dec 3, 2019

Marttiko said:
I got new plate holders from the store I bought FKD from. Same thing happened again. Is this a frustrating coincidence or are these holders in general this bad? Are wooden ones better?

obviously they are. I had the wooden ones, no problem...

FKD film holders

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