Fixing paper in sodium thiosulfate/plain hypo: how long?

[MattKing]

Or if you are a profligate spender, you could buy new lids - similar to what many people who can vegetables do each year.

 

[Augustus Caesar]

Don't use sodium thiosulphite fixer. It's really obsolete. Rapid fixer has much higher capacity and works much faster, meaning that the paper stays in the bath less time, and therefore soaks up less chemical.

 

[eli griggs]

Don't use sodium thiosulphite fixer. It's really obsolete. Rapid fixer has much higher capacity and works much faster, meaning that the paper stays in the bath less time, and therefore soaks up less chemical.

But the outlay for the rapid fixer is sometimes not an option where sodium thiosulphate has the advantage of being cheap and used for things other than fixer in the darkroom.

 

[Augustus Caesar]

But the outlay for the rapid fixer is sometimes not an option where sodium thiosulphate has the advantage of being cheap and used for things other than fixer in the darkroom.

Not really cheaper. Rapid fixer has a much higher capacity.

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

I acquired this Ilford fixer with a bunch of other darkroom stuff.
Its packaging looks ancient yet it works quite well with film and paper.

2000 RT FIXER

Liquid concentrate fixer for high volume machine processing of resin coated (RC) black & white photographic papers. Liquid concentrate print fixer Economical and easy to use Non-hardening For machine processing

www.ilfordphoto.com

Fixer has been discussed many times before and one enlightened contribution said..
Fixer is fixer,!
Ilfords RT fix is produced for machine /higher temp , short time fixing.
My 4 ltr container of RT2000 was at least four years old before I used it.
It clears film within 30 seconds and tests ok with Hypocheck after weeks of use.

What more can you want?

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Not really cheaper. Rapid fixer has a much higher capacity.

My 25kg bag of annhydrous hypo cost me about 45€ and 100g of it makes me a 500ml fixer for 10 slide films. They don't need much power in terms of fixing - reversal recipes even telling to skip fixing (which I find to be erroneous as there's noticeable difference between fixed and unfixed slide), therefore this fixer is very viable in this application.

Napkin math:
25*1000=25000 grams of the stuff;
25000/100 = I can make 250x 500ml fixers out of it and that'll cover 250*10 = 2500 films for me.
I shoot up to 50 films a year, this bag in theory will serve me 50 years. 50 years of fixing per 45€ + the cost of stabiliser which will not be felt like at all. Let's say 60€ per 50 years of fixing.


Today and locally 5l of Ilford Rapid Fixer costs 78€. I used it at recommended 1+4 or 100ml of concentrate to have 500ml fixer for 10 films.
5*1000 = 5000 milliliters of the stuff;
5000/100 = I can make 50x 500ml fixers out of it and it'll cover 50*10 = 500 films for me and serve no other use in household.
Considering that fixer for slides can be weaker, I could use 1+9 and then I would have 5000/50=100 fixers for 1000 films and serving no other use in household. But I haven't ever used 1+9 so I cannot know for sure if it could take 10 films.

That's 2500 hypo fixed films for 60€ Vs up to 1000 films for 78€.
Soo, hypo is cheaper - no questions asked. Even when using IRF 1+9


EDIT: math

 

[Ivo Stunga]

This could be more important than price alone: buying chems in bulk quantities also removes your darkroom inventory dependence on store working hours as you have the raw chemicals on hand in abundant quantities.
And you can be more relaxed about inventory upkeep and/or product availability for longer.

 

[koraks]

store working hours

IDK, but I estimate that about 95% of the darkroom chemicals are purchased online. The phrase "oh shoot, no fixer; I'll pop out for a minute to the store at the corner for a bottle - d'you need anything?" must not have been heard for a long, long time.

This is one of those many things in which rationality is sought while it's not even relevant. The rational thing to do is not spend time in a darkroom to begin with. But we like to dress up our own preferences and set ways with arguments that make it seem like the 'best' or 'smartest' choice. All bogus. What's wrong with simply stating "I do it because I prefer it this way. I've got that big bag of sodium thiosulfate so what am I going to do, discard it? I'm committed for as long as that bag isn't empty, for better or worse."

Reality is prosaic; kidding ourselves is probably much more poetic!

 

[Ivo Stunga]

The phrase "oh shoot, no fixer; I'll pop out for a minute to the store at the corner for a bottle - d'you need anything?" must not have been heard for a long, long time.

I must be lucky then - physical store is 30min drive away and stuff on shelves. EDIT: add another 2 at similar distances. 3 physical stores in Riga, LV.
And math is math, I ain't preaching here, just stating that hypo fixer is cheap AND viable - contrary to what's stated before.

Regional situation can twist one's perspective it seems

 

[Ivo Stunga]

And I'd argue that in the light of physical store being a rarity, finding yourself without a fixer/developer and having to wait for web order delivery hurts that much more, playing it even more in the favor of bulk quantities to minimize such errors
Just throwing +'s and -'s around

 

[xkaes]

Soo, hypo is cheaper - no questions asked. Even when using IRF 1+9

And, with dry chemicals, they last forever. Rapid Fix has a short life-span -- even when not mixed with water -- just sitting on the shelf. I found out the hard way.

 

[Rudeofus]

And, with dry chemicals, they last forever. Rapid Fix has a short life-span -- even when not mixed with water -- just sitting on the shelf. I found out the hard way.

This is true only for acidic rapid fixer. If you buy color fixer concentrate, as @Melvin J Bramley here has already recommended here, all these woes with short shelf life go away.

BTW there's one thing I'd like to nitpick about @Doremus Scudder insightful posting: OP is mixing Sodium Thiosulfate with Sodium Sulfite, which provides OP with a stable and slightly alkaline fixer. Washing will be much faster than what any of Kodak's F-5/F-6 products ever offered, and shelf life will be near infinite. This is definitely not a "use within a single session" type fixer.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Sodium Sulfite, which provides OP with a stable and slightly alkaline fixer

What if I use Sodium Metabisulfite instead? Have it on hand from making reversal Clear bath.

 

[cliveh]

If you are fixing Van Dyke browns you need to use a dilute solution of sodium thiosulphate and fix for the minimum of time needed, as you will quickly loose tone and colour fast. But this is probably not relevant to the OP.

 

[GregY]

You can buy the jars empty. .....I can't imagine going through a gallon container of pickled eggs or sausages and living to tell the story. I'd rather take my chances w pyrogallol !

 

[Anon Ymous]

What if I use Sodium Metabisulfite instead? Have it on hand from making reversal Clear bath.

Sure, you can use metabisulfite, but this will make an acidic fixer, with a not so stellar shelf life.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Thanks!

 

[Doremus Scudder]

BTW there's one thing I'd like to nitpick about @Doremus Scudder insightful posting: OP is mixing Sodium Thiosulfate with Sodium Sulfite, which provides OP with a stable and slightly alkaline fixer. Washing will be much faster than what any of Kodak's F-5/F-6 products ever offered, and shelf life will be near infinite. This is definitely not a "use within a single session" type fixer.

Thanks for the correction, Rudi. I was confusing the thiosulfate/sulfite fixer with "plain hypo" fixer (recommended by AA as bath 2 before toning, and which doesn't last that long due to oxidation).

If sodium thiosulfate and sodium sulfite make a long-lived fixer, that seems like a good solution for the OP, as well as for others that are in similar situations.

Best,

Doremus

 

[eli griggs]

Pickled bar snacks, including Kosher Pickles, just need a can of peanuts in water and Cheese Nips to become a super food!

A beer is also in order, dark Dutch preferable.

 

[Rudeofus]

If sodium thiosulfate and sodium sulfite make a long-lived fixer, that seems like a good solution for the OP, as well as for others that are in similar situations.

Yes, this Sodium Thiosulfate plus Sodium Sulfite fixer is IMHO the best option if you really don't want to deal with Ammonia. If you want to speed this up, you can add some ammonium salt, and you'd have to adjust pH to neutral in order to avoid the Ammonia smell. The best and cheapest option overall is in many cases fixer replenisher concentrate for color processing in minilabs, so I would recommend the prior options only, if one has a very cheap and available source for Sodium Thiosulfate.

 

[Donald Qualls]

cheap and available source for Sodium Thiosulfate.

Pool and spa suppliers sell sodium thiosulfate (in buckets from five pounds on up -- size, not cost) as a chlorine reducer for pools and hot tubs. It's significantly cheaper than buying the stuff from a photographic supplier, and comes in an airtight reclosable bucket.

 

[Rudeofus]

Pool and spa suppliers sell sodium thiosulfate (in buckets from five pounds on up -- size, not cost) as a chlorine reducer for pools and hot tubs. It's significantly cheaper than buying the stuff from a photographic supplier, and comes in an airtight reclosable bucket.

About 4 years I bought three 10l canisters of C-41 fixer replenisher concentrate for less than 100€. I have since gone through about 12 liters of that concentrate in a dark room, which is used weekly by 2-3 B&W printers. Trust me, I have spent an order of magnitude more on film&paper in this time frame, so this fixer is essentially free in the large scheme of things.

Yes, I realize, that Sodium Thiosulfate can be had very very cheaply, I still have one or two large buckets of it sitting somewhere, but I won't be using it before I run out of C-41 fixer and can't find another cheap source for it.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I realize, that Sodium Thiosulfate can be had very very cheaply, I still have one or two large buckets of it sitting somewhere, but I won't be using it before I run out of C-41 fixer and can't find another cheap source for it.

Oh, no question, C-41 fixer is the better choice if available -- it's a rapid fixer, meaning your prints need less washing (if you time your fixing for the minimum complete fixation, at least), and it also does a better job on tabular grain films than plain hypo or hypo plus sulfite (which must be used in a two-bath system to get reliable full fixing on films like Delta and T-Max). It keeps pretty well in the original bottle, too; I've got some that's more than ten years old and still works. Not everyone has access to easy Internet ordering or chemical shipping, though, and a local supply of some kind of fixer is a good thing to have. White vinegar (if you like stop bath), pool supply sodium thiosulfate, and some coffee, washing soda and vitamin C can have you developing film (and prints) when all regular photo chemicals are inaccessible.

 

[Rudeofus]

Not everyone has access to easy Internet ordering or chemical shipping, though, and a local supply of some kind of fixer is a good thing to have. White vinegar (if you like stop bath), pool supply sodium thiosulfate, and some coffee, washing soda and vitamin C can have you developing film (and prints) when all regular photo chemicals are inaccessible.

If access to supplies is heavily restricted, then "use what you can get" is the only and therefore by far the best option. I won't throw that stash of sodium hypo out, I promise

 

[eli griggs]

Amen!