Fixer concentration for prints

[fjpod]

When fixing prints in a tray do you use 1:4 or 1:7 dilution?

 

[Doremus Scudder]

The decision to use the stronger or weaker dilution of rapid fixer for prints is entirely dependent on one's workflow and methods.

If you ascribe to the Ilford method of processing for optimal permanence, you'll use the stronger dilution ("film strength) and a one-minute total fixing time for fiber-base prints. Ilford's method is predicated on the idea that a shorter fixing time in stronger fixer will do the fixing job adequately without saturating the paper base fully with fixer, thereby making the washing of the print easier and shorter.

If, like me, you are a bit skeptical about Ilford's claims, not sure it will work with other materials and chemicals than Ilford's, make large prints and use two-bath fixing, which makes a 60-second total fixing time inconvenient and difficult to hold to, etc., etc., you might use the weaker ("paper strength) dilution and longer fixing times (and and appropriately longer wash time, of course).

BTW, Ilford's recommended dilutions for their Rapid Fixer and Hypam are 1+4 and 1+9. Kodak gives 1:3 and and 1:7 dilutions for their Rapid Fix (film and print-strength respectively). And, Kodak has never advocated fixing fiber-base prints for a short time in the stronger dilution of fixer.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Peter Schrager]

I buy 25 lb buckets of penta sodium thiosulfate
Mix a pound of this into 32 oz. Of water. Add 15 grams bisufite and you have enough fixer for about 24 prints..use and throw away
Not to worry about ratios ever

 

[RalphLambrecht]

When fixing prints in a tray do you use 1:4 or 1:7 dilution?

1:4 for FB because, the idea is fix brief but strong not to give the fixer too much of a chance to creep into the fibres where it becomes hard to wash it out again.With RC 1:7 is fine since it fixes pretty fast anyway and there are no fibres to speak of.

 

[Bill Burk]

The decision to use the stronger or weaker dilution of rapid fixer for prints is entirely dependent on one's workflow and methods.

If you ascribe to the Ilford method of processing for optimal permanence, you'll use the stronger dilution ("film strength) and a one-minute total fixing time for fiber-base prints. Ilford's method is predicated on the idea that a shorter fixing time in stronger fixer will do the fixing job adequately without saturating the paper base fully with fixer, thereby making the washing of the print easier and shorter.

If, like me, you are a bit skeptical about Ilford's claims, not sure it will work with other materials and chemicals than Ilford's, make large prints and use two-bath fixing, which makes a 60-second total fixing time inconvenient and difficult to hold to, etc., etc., you might use the weaker ("paper strength) dilution and longer fixing times (and and appropriately longer wash time, of course).

BTW, Ilford's recommended dilutions for their Rapid Fixer and Hypam are 1+4 and 1+9. Kodak gives 1:3 and and 1:7 dilutions for their Rapid Fix (film and print-strength respectively). And, Kodak has never advocated fixing fiber-base prints for a short time in the stronger dilution of fixer.

Best,

Doremus

Thanks Doremus for reassuring me that the old way is valid as is Ilford’s idea.

I think it would be easier for people to comply with Ilford’s method- but being set in my ways, I probably won’t change what I do.

 

[fjpod]

I only use RC paper... For now. Was thinking of lower concentration to reduce smell in my darkroom with open trays. I even have a vent Hood. What can i say? I have a sensitive nose.

I tried.... What is it?.... Clayton rapid odorless fixer. Worked well. No smell. One liter working solution lasted forever.... But, the remaining product developed sediment and murkiness.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[darkroommike]

What fixer? Kodak Rapid? Ilford Rapid? Hypam? Kodafix? More data please.

 

[canuhead]

if odours are an issue, try Formulary TF5. pretty well nothing to smell except slight ammonia, but nothing like regular fixer. also try citric acid for stop bath. again zero odour

 

[Alan9940]

if odours are an issue, try Formulary TF5. pretty well nothing to smell except slight ammonia, but nothing like regular fixer. also try citric acid for stop bath. again zero odour

Personally, I find the smell of TF5 highly objectionable when working with an open tray; fine for processing film in tanks. I use F-24 (an odorless, standard sodium thiosulfate fix) followed by plain hypo, if I'm planning to selenium tone.

 

[removed account4]

i use sprint fixer and i only mix it 2:8 for film and prints

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Thanks Doremus for reassuring me that the old way is valid as is Ilford’s idea.
I think it would be easier for people to comply with Ilford’s method- but being set in my ways, I probably won’t change what I do.

Bill,

My dislike of the Ilford method is purely practical: even with 11x14 prints and two-bath fixing, I find it awkward to keep to exactly 60 seconds of fixation. Of course, the drain time needs to be figured in to that 60 seconds, since the fixer is soaking into the paper base even while the print is draining. Given 10 seconds of drain time before the second fix and 10-15 seconds of drain time before the print hits the running water tray, I've got 20-25 seconds total drain time, i.e., time I'm not agitating the print in the fixer. And, what if I go over by 10-15 seconds and fix for 70 seconds... or 75 seconds? Does that mean that the paper fibers are now more saturated and that I have to increase my wash time accordingly? And then by how much? The handling problem is only compounded with 16x20 and larger prints.

After 90 seconds or so, the paper base is completely saturated, so you're back to using the old wash times by then anyway. And, even if Ilford's method works well, it depends on Ilford materials being used. What about other papers, with different emulsions and bases? Or fixers from other manufacturers? (Sure, we could test for that). And, we could just use one-bath fixation and keep the throughput low so as not to exceed the "archival" capacity of 10 8x10-inch prints per liter, thereby keeping drain time to a minimum. I consider that wasteful, however since I'm getting the equivalent of at least 36 8x10 prints per liter of first fixing bath using the two-bath method and can cycle the second bath into first place after that, saving a lot of fixer after a few cycles. So, I'll stick with my tested method of using "paper strength" fixer, two bath for 1.5-2 minutes each and then rinsing, treating with a wash aid and washing for 60+ minutes (I don't like those optical brighteners anyway!).

@OP,
RC papers are basically like film, i.e., the emulsion is coated on a waterproof base, and can be processed without worrying about all the wash-aids and long wash times, etc., needed for fiber-base papers. If it were me, since the capacities are similar for both the strong and weak dilution, I'd use the weaker ("print strength") dilution for RC papers. Just be sure you don't exceed the published capacity.

I find the Ilford tech sheet for Rapid Fixer (or Hypam) to be illuminating and worth a careful read. Pay special attention to the (somewhat hidden) difference between capacities for "optimum permanence" and "general purpose," as well as the discussion of two-bath fixation. Here's the link: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/...=ilford_brochure&__from_store=ilford_brochure .

Best,

Doremus

 

[fjpod]

What fixer? Kodak Rapid? Ilford Rapid? Hypam? Kodafix? More data please.

ilford rapid

 

[john_s]

I only use RC paper... .... Clayton rapid odorless fixer. Worked well. No smell. One liter working solution lasted forever.... ........

I use only FB paper and two-bath fixing. I'm fussy about having fixer fresh so that the prints wash well and keep well.

If using only RC paper, does one have to be concerned about build-up of silver complexes in fixer at all?

 

[Doremus Scudder]

... If using only RC paper, does one have to be concerned about build-up of silver complexes in fixer at all?

Yes. RC is like film and can maybe tolerate higher levels of dissolved silver (not sure about this, though), but whenever the concentration gets high enough that the halides in the emulsion don't get converted to fully soluble compounds, contaminants are left behind in the emulsion even after thorough washing, which can degrade and discolor with time.

Best,

Doremus

 

[darkroommike]

I use only FB paper and two-bath fixing. I'm fussy about having fixer fresh so that the prints wash well and keep well.

If using only RC paper, does one have to be concerned about build-up of silver complexes in fixer at all?

Perhaps less so, but, fixer converts silver halides into silver thiosufates, emphasis on plural, some are much less soluble than the others. Aged fixer is more likely to produce the less soluble thiosulfates. Poor agitation in the fixer tray does the same thing since the layer of fix right next to the emulsion is locally exhausted. Those thiosulfates left in the emulsion will react with sulfur compounds, mostly sulfur dioxide, in the air and change color in random and unpredictable ways. Stains.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I only use RC paper... For now. Was thinking of lower concentration to reduce smell in my darkroom with open trays. I even have a vent Hood. What can i say? I have a sensitive nose.

I tried.... What is it?.... Clayton rapid odorless fixer. Worked well. No smell. One liter working solution lasted forever.... But, the remaining product developed sediment and murkiness.

Thanks for the advice.

FB is where the rubber meets thread,everything else is still practising.