Fixer buildup in a few bottles

[What About Bob]

Looks like I have some yummy looking yellow-green solids at the bottom of a few of my bottles. Ilford Hypam was the fixer stored in them. I had broken down the five liter concentrate to one liter bottles and a majority of the fixer was used up, except for a few bottles. Upon opening those bottles I was presented with the lovely scent of cabbage and eggs. Is there any way to clean these solids out from the bottles? Would I need an acid or an alkaline based cleaning solution or would very hot water followed by the use of a jackhammer do the job? Thanks

 

[randyB]

The individual chemicals are starting to come out of solution. Your fixer is toast. I've had it happen many times. Is there a reason you want to keep the bottles? I use 2 litre soda bottles for all my working chems. When they get stained, I just rinse them and chuck them in the recycle bin.

 

[What About Bob]

Hi Randy

They were good bottles. Photographer Formulary translucent bottles. Think I bought them from either B&H or Adorama. If they can be cleaned out and saved that would be good but if not I will just chuck them out.

I am not a soda drinker but I will ask around and see if I can grab some soda bottles from friends or "borrow" some from recycling at the local convenient store I go to, lol. Are soda bottles pretty much the same type of plastic?

Just thought of it.... How about prune juice bottles? My mom drinks that stuff from time to time. Sun sweet, I think it is called. I think they are dark/tinted too. Just have to peel off the label. I was also thinking about the glass bottles of milk from the local farm that the same convenient store sells. I believe they are quart/liter bottles. I don't remember if the lids had metal in them.

 

[koraks]

To clean bottles like these, try the following: take a small scrap of towel, textile, sponge or tissue. Soak it and put it into the bottle; it needs to be small enough to be able to easily go through the neck of the bottle. Then put a little water into the bottle so that it's maybe 10-20% full. Now shake the bejeezus out of the bottle. It helps if you hold it in various angles when doing so. Much of the fouling will be cleaned off the inside walls by the piece of towel etc. Periodically, dump the contents, rinse the piece of cloth and repeat if the bottle's not entirely clean yet.

I don't remember if the lids had metal in them.

This is important; many glass bottles used for condiments, juices etc. have iron lids with a coating etc. These lids will often not withstand prolonged and repeated use for photochemistry. Fixer is generally acidic (acetic acid) and will attack these lids over time. It may/will take some time, but it'll inevitably happen. I've stored chemistry in jam jars, juice bottles etc. with ferro-metallic lids many times and the result is invariably the same: rust.

PET soda bottles are fine; around here, bottled water also usually comes in PET bottles. Saves you from having to drink soda.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Looks like I have some yummy looking yellow-green solids at the bottom of a few of my bottles. Ilford Hypam was the fixer stored in them. I had broken down the five liter concentrate to one liter bottles and a majority of the fixer was used up, except for a few bottles. Upon opening those bottles I was presented with the lovely scent of cabbage and eggs. Is there any way to clean these solids out from the bottles? Would I need an acid or an alkaline based cleaning solution or would very hot water followed by the use of a jackhammer do the job? Thanks

it'veryhardtocleamnupmechamnicallyorchemicallexceptforsomemnastyacids.imaybvetimeforsomemnewbvottles.

 

[Don_ih]

I think your spacebar ain't working, @RalphLambrecht.

 

[Don_ih]

@What About Bob - that yellow stuff is nigh on impossible to get rid of once it sets up.

 

[loccdor]

If the yellow stuff is hard to get rid of, wouldn't that imply it's also stable enough to not have a big impact on the next batch of fixer you put in the bottle?

They do make bottle brushes that look a bit like smaller toilet bowl cleaners.

 

[koraks]

wouldn't that imply it's also stable enough to not have a big impact on the next batch of fixer you put in the bottle?

Yeah, but bits will still flake off of the bottle walls from time to time and end up sticking to the film if the bottles are still used for photo chemistry.

Most of the time, this crud clears out just fine in the way I described, though. I've done so many, many times.

They do make bottle brushes that look a bit like smaller toilet bowl cleaners.

Very simply put - they don't work well.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I think your spacebar ain't working, @RalphLambrecht.

Nothing gets by you. scary!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

If the yellow stuff is hard to get rid of, wouldn't that imply it's also stable enough to not have a big impact on the next batch of fixer you put in the bottle?

They do make bottle brushes that look a bit like smaller toilet bowl cleaners.

goodpointif it weren't for the sandy debris.

 

[john_s]

To clean bottles like these, try the following: take a small scrap of towel, textile, sponge or tissue. Soak it and put it into the bottle; it needs to be small enough to be able to easily go through the neck of the bottle. Then put a little water into the bottle so that it's maybe 10-20% full. Now shake the bejeezus out of the bottle. It helps if you hold it in various angles when doing so. Much of the fouling will be cleaned off the inside walls by the piece of towel etc. Periodically, dump the contents, rinse the piece of cloth and repeat if the bottle's not entirely clean yet.


This is important; many glass bottles used for condiments, juices etc. have iron lids with a coating etc. These lids will often not withstand prolonged and repeated use for photochemistry. Fixer is generally acidic (acetic acid) and will attack these lids over time. It may/will take some time, but it'll inevitably happen. I've stored chemistry in jam jars, juice bottles etc. with ferro-metallic lids many times and the result is invariably the same: rust.

PET soda bottles are fine; around here, bottled water also usually comes in PET bottles. Saves you from having to drink soda.

I have used brown rice plus some water and detergent to do the same shaking to dislodge film or crust inside a bottle. It also works to clean up wine decanters.

Also, it's not just acid that deteriorates steel lids: alkalies are also very likely to promote corrosion/oxidation, also of course salt which is near neutral.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

The "yummy-looking yellow-green solids" is sulfur. Acidic fixers, especially, will "sulfur out" when they get old (regardless of use). This stuff is stuck on fairly hard. I've had pretty good luck cleaning such crud from bottles using a method similar to what koraks suggests, but I use uncooked, short-grain rice.

Put a handful of the uncooked rice in the bottle after you've rinsed it well along with some hot water and a bit of detergent (not very much, just a drop - you don't want a lot of foam). And "shake the bejeezus out of the bottle." The rice might be more effective than pieces of cloth.

If you can't get the bottles clean, you really don't want to use them for film fixer. You could likely get away with using them for fixer for prints since the flakes-sticking-on-the-emulsion problem is less with prints.

Best,

Doremus