Fixer after Sepia?

[M Carter]

I swear I've googled like crazy on this subject...

Using Ferri/Bromide or Copper Sulfate bleach and toning with Thiourea (homebrew variable sepia with whatever-that-lye-chemical-is)...

Do I need to fix after sepia, or just wash?

Since this is bleach and redevelop, is there a worry about halides still being present? I haven't found anything close to a definitive answer.

(By the way, with my stash of old-school agfa papers… ferri or copper bleach, no difference after sepia toning. Which is odd since redev after copper usually gives you a lot of warmth - even when bleaching you can watch the tones go red. Just an FYI…)

 

[Michael Wesik]

I've been told to refix with plain hypo for 5-10 mins if it's suspected that redevelopment/toning isn't taken to completion.

 

[M Carter]

I've been told to refix with plain hypo for 5-10 mins if it's suspected that redevelopment/toning isn't taken to completion.

Man, that sounds a little extreme - wouldn't 10 minutes risk bleaching your highlights?

I tend to start my day with a fixer test on the paper I'm using - 15/30/45/60/ seconds, etc. on a marked strip and develop. Whatever level is the first one totally cleared, I'll double that time (or add 50% if I'm lith printing and losing color in the fix). I test it again throughout the session, but for lith, I'll mix fixer a little weaker than the 1+4 Ilford and it will still be clearing paper in 20-30 seconds well into the day.

 

[Michael Wesik]

Plain hypo isn't as aggressive as say a rapid fix 1+4...and I haven't found that a plain hypo fix has any effect on highlights or colour.

 

[cliveh]

Do I need to fix after sepia, or just wash?/QUOTE]

Just wash.

 

[M Carter]

Plain hypo isn't as aggressive as say a rapid fix 1+4...and I haven't found that a plain hypo fix has any effect on highlights or colour.

Yep, I use it for lith on certain papers (or also TF4), and also found I got better bromoils with it.

Googling sepia and fixer, I get the "not needed" (per CliveH) to "quick dip" to full-on-fixing… hmmm.

Makes me curious - I don't have residual silver test chemicals, but I've read a drop of selenium will go dark if there's residual silver. Don't know if that's an urban legend though.

 

[MattKing]

The answer? It depends!

If you tone to completion, you need not re-fix.

If you do not completely tone, there remains in the print some re-halogenated silver salts that have not been fully developed out to something more stable. If you leave those salts in the print, it will deteriorate over time.

A further fix will convert those salts into a water soluble complex that you can wash away (sound familiar?).

I do a fair amount of partial and split toning. Sometimes, if I am using an incomplete bleach to help control the results, the final change in tone is very subtle. It can be hard to tell the difference between complete toning after a light bleach and incomplete toning. So it is a good idea to make a fix step a regular part of your routine.

I also like to use hardener after toning, because toned emulsions can be somewhat fragile. If you use hardening fixer as the final pre-wash step, it will accomplish both purposes (but extend your final wash).

 

[M Carter]

Thanks Matt - seems like sound advice.