Fixer after Sepia?

I swear I've googled like crazy on this subject...

Using Ferri/Bromide or Copper Sulfate bleach and toning with Thiourea (homebrew variable sepia with whatever-that-lye-chemical-is)...

Do I need to fix after sepia, or just wash?

Since this is bleach and redevelop, is there a worry about halides still being present? I haven't found anything close to a definitive answer.

(By the way, with my stash of old-school agfa papers… ferri or copper bleach, no difference after sepia toning. Which is odd since redev after copper usually gives you a lot of warmth - even when bleaching you can watch the tones go red. Just an FYI…)

I've been told to refix with plain hypo for 5-10 mins if it's suspected that redevelopment/toning isn't taken to completion.

Michael Wesik said:

I've been told to refix with plain hypo for 5-10 mins if it's suspected that redevelopment/toning isn't taken to completion.

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Man, that sounds a little extreme - wouldn't 10 minutes risk bleaching your highlights?

I tend to start my day with a fixer test on the paper I'm using - 15/30/45/60/ seconds, etc. on a marked strip and develop. Whatever level is the first one totally cleared, I'll double that time (or add 50% if I'm lith printing and losing color in the fix). I test it again throughout the session, but for lith, I'll mix fixer a little weaker than the 1+4 Ilford and it will still be clearing paper in 20-30 seconds well into the day.

Plain hypo isn't as aggressive as say a rapid fix 1+4...and I haven't found that a plain hypo fix has any effect on highlights or colour.

Michael Wesik said:

Plain hypo isn't as aggressive as say a rapid fix 1+4...and I haven't found that a plain hypo fix has any effect on highlights or colour.

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Yep, I use it for lith on certain papers (or also TF4), and also found I got better bromoils with it.

Googling sepia and fixer, I get the "not needed" (per CliveH) to "quick dip" to full-on-fixing… hmmm.

Makes me curious - I don't have residual silver test chemicals, but I've read a drop of selenium will go dark if there's residual silver. Don't know if that's an urban legend though.

The answer? It depends!

If you tone to completion, you need not re-fix.

If you do not completely tone, there remains in the print some re-halogenated silver salts that have not been fully developed out to something more stable. If you leave those salts in the print, it will deteriorate over time.

A further fix will convert those salts into a water soluble complex that you can wash away (sound familiar?).

I do a fair amount of partial and split toning. Sometimes, if I am using an incomplete bleach to help control the results, the final change in tone is very subtle. It can be hard to tell the difference between complete toning after a light bleach and incomplete toning. So it is a good idea to make a fix step a regular part of your routine.

I also like to use hardener after toning, because toned emulsions can be somewhat fragile. If you use hardening fixer as the final pre-wash step, it will accomplish both purposes (but extend your final wash).

Thanks Matt - seems like sound advice.