Fix times for Ilford MGFB Cooltone GL papers

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I'm using Arista Odorless Fixer, which the label says is a rapid fixer, for fixing the last of my Ilford MGFB Cooltone GL 11x14 papers. The Ilford spec sheet says their FB papers need only 1 minute in a rapid fixer at 1:4, or 2 minutes at 1:9. I'd been diluting the Arista fixer to 1:7, which is what it calls for on the bottle, and fixing the fb prints for 2-3 minutes.

Is that too long? 60 seconds seems like a real short time in the fix for a relatively big print (if size makes any difference), rapid fixer or not. I assume that when Ilford gives these times, they figure you're using their Rapid Fixer, but I'm using the Arista stuff.

 

[pentaxuser]

If the Arista is a genuine rapid fixer and as Arista says it is then it looks likely to be so. Rapid fixer is rapid fixer. no matter whose fixer.You want a quick fix so as little of the fix gets into the FB as possible so I'd try 1+4 and 1 minute

pentaxuser

 

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That's what I'm weighing, shorter fix times for less washing, vs longer fixing time and more washing. This Glossy paper isn't nearly as sturdy as their Matt, and I've damaged it's emulsion in the past by being too rough w/ it. So that might be best for the Gl papers, go for the shorter fix time, which means handling them a little less.

 

[bdial]

Most likely you are fine with going with Arista's and Illford's recommendations. But, as opposed to film, if paper is under-fixed it's not immediately obvious. The way to know for sure is to do a retained silver test which you can do with a bit of selenium toner.

 

[gone]

Unfortunately I have no toner (never tried toning), but that's in the back of mind too. Looking at the data sheet on Arista EDU Ultra FB Fine Grain paper, they recommend 3-5 minutes @68 degrees in the fix, but it's a double weight paper. I may err on the side of safety and go w/ 2 minutes at 1:4 and wash them longer. My darkroom is nowhere near 68 degrees, it's closer to 75-80, so the chemicals should be more active than at 68.

You would think there would be standardized times and dilutions for almost any FB paper, but that doesn't seem to be because every fixer is different, apparently. Although truthfully, what with the paper being soaking wet already from the developer and stop bath when it gets to the fixer, wet is wet. I can't see how the paper could soak up more fixer if it sits in the tray for 2 minutes or for 10 minutes, it's going to soak up anything it's set in, period. The fixer isn't physically pushing the developer out of the paper.

 

[MattKing]

The challenge that arises is whether or not the fixer actually gets to the emulsion and has enough time to do its work.
Developer can get in the way.
If you are concerned, extend the time in the stop bath.
And after all that, be prepared to use HCA or something similar, and wash thoroughly!
And get some selenium toner!

 

[gone]

With my current darkroom skills, there won't be any toning until I figure out the Ilford Matte papers. I just have a few of the Glossy to print, then make more of the matte (or however it's spelled). Toning does interest me though.

Here's a link to an article on allowing the prints to sit in water for long periods of time btwn water changes. Neat graph stuff for the chemist types. The idea is to allow the fb papers to rid themselves of fixer by diffusion. He mentioned that Ilford's short times for washing their fb prints are based on keeping the prints in the fix for very short periods of time. When those fix times are extended to longer, more traditional fix times, the Ilford workflow equation falls apart and doesn't work. I wish this were available in PDF. I'm going to print each page w/ CutePDF Writer and put 'em in a folder.

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=296

 

[NB23]

Use Two baths (1:9)

 

[Doremus Scudder]

You should be aware that Ilford has two strategies for fixing fiber-base paper. The "one-minute" regime is the one they promote, and is intended to fix quickly, in stronger fixer, so that the fixer does its job before soaking into the fibers of the paper base, thus making washing easier. Find the website on the Ilford sequence for optimum permanence for more info. Note that the wash aid plays a crucial role in the processing sequence.

The more traditional fixing regime uses a weaker dilution of fixer for a longer time and an appropriately longer wash time.

The "stronger" fixer Ilford recommends for their products is the 1+4 dilution, which is commonly known as "film strength" since it is the standard dilution for fixing film. If your brand of fixer has two different dilutions, one for film and one for prints, you could probably use Ilford's shorter fixing time and the accompanying regime. If not, you're likely better off using the longer fixing time and the longer wash.

The Ilford optimum permanence sequence seems designed around a one-bath fixing regime. Additionally, the capacity of the fixer is somewhat low: 40 8x10 prints for a "commercial" standard of permanence, but only 10 8x10 prints per liter for "optimum permanence."

My personal preference is for two-bath fixing using the weaker ("print-strength) fixer. I fix 1.5-2 minutes in each bath with a wash between. My capacity is 36 prints per liter of bath one, meaning I can fix 36 prints in two baths before discarding bath one, replacing it with bath 2 and mixing a new second bath. I find this a lot easier to deal with with larger prints (keeping the fixing time to 60 seconds with larger prints is hard) and more economical by about a factor of two than the one-bath optimum permanence regime.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

 

[Paul Howell]

I use a standard fix for RC and PF TF 5 for FB, only hassle is that I need to set up a tray siphon for a wash before fixing rather than stop bath, one minute in fix and 30 minutes in drum washer or 60 in archival washer. For test prints I have used Permawash then a shorter 5 minute wash to dry so I can how the dry down will affect final printing times.

 

[Paul Howell]

I follow PF directions, but may give a stop bath a try.