First Time Phoenix 200 120 & Home Processing

[Andrew O'Neill]

 

[loccdor]

Nice results, more exacting method than I use. Using Phoenix as your first color negative film seems a good way to go, don't have to worry about an orange mask, and the limited dynamic range means lower tolerance for errors, letting you see where you should adjust.

Regarding the 2C temp drop you measured, I use the same Paterson tank as you and I don't get that, I think because I do a 38C pre-wash to bring the plastic up to temp. I think the lower temp of the plastic is bringing down your developer temperature when you first pour it in.

As far as the color casts go, adjusting color negative channels is a whole subject/artform... and part of why many people prefer chromes.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Nice results, more exacting method than I use. Using Phoenix as your first color negative film seems a good way to go, don't have to worry about an orange mask, and the limited dynamic range means lower tolerance for errors, letting you see where you should adjust.

Regarding the 2C temp drop you measured, I use the same Paterson tank as you and I don't get that, I think because I do a 38C pre-wash to bring the plastic up to temp. I think the lower temp of the plastic is bringing down your developer temperature when you first pour it in.

As far as the color casts go, adjusting color negative channels is a whole subject/artform... and part of why many people prefer chromes.

I'll try the pre-wash. Thanks!

 

[WeiW]

informative, could be applicable to broad C-41 procedures

 

[pentaxuser]

In terms of the lack of shadow detail it seems from what I have read that the film speed at which you expose is key. From all accounts it is not the speed of 200 but may be at least 1/3rd stop lower

It has some way to go before it reaches the quality of Kodak colour negative film. Still your relative inexperience and the results you obtained suggest that the statement that is usually handed out whenever a newcomer to colour film asks what to do and gets told he has to maintain temp to within 0.2 degrees C of 38 degrees if problems are to be avoided may be somewhat of an exaggeration

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

As far as the color casts go, adjusting color negative channels is a whole subject/artform... and part of why many people prefer chromes.

Very much so. If I take a still from the video and invert it, it turns out the casts aren't really so pronounced (or present) as the scans suggest:

The casts originate to a large extent in the scanner software, which is trying to automatically balance the colors - sometimes somewhat successfully so, but it virtually never results in a consistent color balance. https://tinker.koraks.nl/photography/all-over-the-place-the-problem-with-color-negative-film-scans/

Note that in the contact sheet above, there's really no cyan or magenta cast to the tree image shown around 21:40. It's really the same color balance in the actual negative as the other shots taken under the same conditions. The main problem here is that the scanning software is going haywire with the extremely high gamma of Phoenix 200, which leads the color balancing algorithm astray. Note also that both of these images (normal exposure and one stop overexposed) really have the same color balance. The scanner thinks differently - but it has nothing to do with the film as such:

Note that neither is particularly cyan, or magenta. It's just the scanning software throwing you for a loop.

@Andrew O'Neill have you tried scanning the entire contact sheet in one go as a positive/slide and then balancing all frames at the same time? You'll find that this makes a side-by-side comparison of frames a lot easier - and more reliable. https://tinker.koraks.nl/photography/flipped-doing-color-negative-inversions-manually/
It's also pretty fast doing it this way.

As to the lost shadows in your images - don't beat yourself up over it. Any regular C41 film would have given you OK shadows the way you exposed it. With Phoenix, it's a bit like shooting slides, but a lot worse. You get to choose either the shadows, or the highlights. If you expose for the midtones or highlights, the shadows are gone as you've found. If you expose for the shadows, you'll push the highlights all up on the curve where they flatten out and turn to mush. This is also what happened with your tree image I mentioned above and probably a big part of the reason why the scanner turn it into something...err...artistic.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I'm not so concerned about colour casts... If I use any of the images, they'll be for tri-colour gums (using inkjet separation negs). Also, in regards to the loss of shadow detail, that was down to me and the crappy, hand held, averaging light metre that I was using. Next time, I'll use my spot metre.

 

[pentaxpete]

I blow the Tank and Spiral with a hair dryer then into changing bag to load film then it keeps the temp better -- also pour in Colour Dev 2 degrees above helps --

 

[Chuck_P]

Thanks, that was very interesting though I won't be developing any color.........however, I've never seen such a device that gets your tempering water to the desired temp. Do you use that for your black and white work as well and what is it called and where did you get it? Thanks.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I blow the Tank and Spiral with a hair dryer then into changing bag to load film then it keeps the temp better -- also pour in Colour Dev 2 degrees above helps --

Thanks for the tips, Peter!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thanks, that was very interesting though I won't be developing any color.........however, I've never seen such a device that gets your tempering water to the desired temp. Do you use that for your black and white work as well and what is it called and where did you get it? Thanks.

It's called a Sous Vide. I picked mine up at Walmart. No, I haven't used it for B/W processing. I might try it out when I do stand/semi-stand, though. I'll have to see if I can set the temperature at 20C, first. It's a bit of a pain trying to keep my darkroom at 20C during the Winter months, so the Sous Vide might come in handy when development times are long...

 

[Chuck_P]

Thanks..........I would love to have something that simple that would cool my water down in the summer months. I've standardized my development times at 68F and in the summer I think it's a pain dealing with some ice in the water to get the temp down where I need it. I guess the alternative being to spend the time and sheets of film to standardize my development times at a higher temp.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thanks..........I would love to have something that simple that would cool my water down in the summer months. I've standardized my development times at 68F and in the summer I think it's a pain dealing with some ice in the water to get the temp down where I need it. I guess the alternative being to spend the time and sheets of film to standardize my development times at a higher temp.

I don't think it'll cool down your water, though.

 

[koraks]

I don't think it'll cool down your water, though.

It 100% won't.

 

[Chuck_P]

I don't think it'll cool down your water, though.

It 100% won't.

Sorry, I must have given the impression that I thought it would work in reverse, no, it doesn't make sense that it would .

 

[Romanko]

Great job Andrew! Thank you for sharing.

Instead of (or in addition to) using a pre-wash you can put your dry tank with film into the water bath (weigh it so it does not float) and let it heat up to the target temperature. Return the tank to the water bath after agitation and keep your sous vide running. You probably need a larger and slightly deeper container, I use a 40L cooler (Esky).

My Sous-Vide does not go below 25 degrees Celsius, but some models do. And you can always use a fish tank heater, they normally go as low as 18 degrees.

 

[dpurdy]

Funny, I clicked on your channel and discovered that I have watched several of your videos without connecting you to APUG. I subscribed.

 

[BrianShaw]

Just a suggestion: PHOENIX.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Just a suggestion: PHOENIX.

Oop! Fixed. Thanks, Brian.

 

[MattKing]

Just a suggestion: PHOENIX.

Oop! Fixed. Thanks, Brian.

Fixed the thread title for you too

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Fixed the thread title for you too

Thanks... not sure why I didn't think of that, too!