First time Leica owner: advice?

FoidPoosening · May 13, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
One of the enjoyable things about getting a new-to-you camera is all the fun research and reading you get to do.

Here's a simple overview that lists some of the M3 variations:

http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Leica_M3

Then there's Stephen Gandy's wonderful site:

https://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm

Ultimately, what matters is the photos you make. Still, it's nice to feel good about your camera and know about its history. It's not going to matter if yours is single-stroke, double-stroke, has a preview lever, a self-timer, or whether your viewfinder patch has depth-of-field notches or not. But it's cool to know. The Cameraquest site, among others, lets you look up your serial number to find when your camera was made.

I still don't know how Hippos came up, lol. That being said, mine is a 1mm+ serial number and is from the 1960 batch. Has quite a story (which some of you will like, some of you definitely won't), but I'll wait to share that until I've got my lens in next week.

Bill Burk · May 13, 2016

Bill Burk said:
The most likely scenario for shutter curtain burn is when you set the camera down by your side when you eat your lunch. It only takes a comedy of errors to cause the problem. The lens just has to be focused at infinity and set at a fairly open aperture and stay in one place momentarily with the sun bearing down the barrel.

@Xmas pointed out that 6 feet will focus on the curtain (where infinity is focused on the film)...

So you see... If you are out for the day and stop to eat your lunch... and you have been shooting at f/8 and set the lens to infinity lock before setting the camera down (where it can look at the sun)... You might get lucky and NOT burn the curtain. I think that's why I don't have a hole in mine.

Or maybe I was out shooting with the Contax that day (which has a corrugated metal shutter curtain).

Arklatexian · May 14, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
... and I'm thinking of a IIIf <sigh>

The "Red Dial" I hope. Nothing much wrong with the "Black Dial", I just like the Red Dial better. Before 1954 or so, the IIIf red dial was what real Leicas looked like amongst those of us who drooled for a Leica. Things got better for me and I now have a M3 ds, converted by Leica to ss, and an M2. Love them both but still gonna buy a IIIf red dial one of these days.......Regards!

Patrick Robert James · May 14, 2016

I have never burned a hole in my M3, but I always set it back to infinity as I previously mentioned. Like Bill mentioned too, if you are outside you won't have the lens wide open either....

Since yours is an over 1 million body it might have the depth of field notches which are pretty cool. I always forget what aperture they correspond to though. I am sure someone will chime in.

Helinophoto · May 14, 2016

I have a question about these M3's:
Have anyone here experienced problems with the focusing-prism coming loose?

From what I've read, they actually used a glue that is coming apart these days, so most (that's what I read) need to be serviced, having the focus-prism (that create the double-image in the focusing-patch), re-glued.

That has kept me away from the M3's, since I don't exactly live in a place, blooming with Leica mechanics.

Any truth to these claims? The silver M3 sure is a looker, would love to have one.

guangong · May 14, 2016

I have been using Leicas for over 60 years and have never burned a hole in a shutter curtain while using a camera and I have never met anybody who has burned a hole in a curtain. However，sometimes the ruberized shutter material will deteriorate producing small pinpoint holes. It must take a lot of effort to burn a hole in a shutter while simply carrying a camera around！

tedr1 · May 14, 2016

For those concerned about shutter burn I suggest a simple test. Test each lens off the camera on a day with full sun, try to burn your skin using the lens as a burning glass. If you can't burn your skin the lens won't burn your shutter. I tried this simple test with a variety of lenses and got results that surprised me. I could get a burn using a simple magnifying glass (I tried two, one glass one plastic, both burned), and a vintage long focus repro lens. Using five camera lenses, two of them vintage and uncoated and three modern coated, none burned. Using two enlarging lenses, both modern and coated there was no burn. A possible explanation seems to be that not all lenses focus infra-red radiation, some may block it, and those that do block it don't burn. It would seem wise to make this simple test on the lenses before using the camera.

Nathan King · May 14, 2016

Get the 50mm Summicron, either the type four with focusing tab or type five without depending on your preference. I like the early type four with tiger claw focusing tab, but make sure the elements are clear in the early type four lenses as they're starting to reach that age that they may need a cleaning. If you don't buy the M3 from a licensed dealer expect to need a CLA sooner rather than later. Look for haze in the viewfinder by looking at the front element from a sharp angle. If it's very light it won't make a difference. The slow shutter speed escapement mechanism should sound very even.

FoidPoosening · May 14, 2016

Nathan King said:
Get the 50mm Summicron, either the type four with focusing tab or type five without depending on your preference. I like the early type four with tiger claw focusing tab, but make sure the elements are clear in the early type four lenses as they're starting to reach that age that they may need a cleaning. If you don't buy the M3 from a licensed dealer expect to need a CLA sooner rather than later. Look for haze in the viewfinder by looking at the front element from a sharp angle. If it's very light it won't make a difference. The slow shutter speed escapement mechanism should sound very even.

I actually did that exact lens on thursday, comes to me in the mail early this week! I'm a big fan of focusing tabs so it was a clear choice for me. I know it doesn't matter, but I'm curious: any way to tell is mine was made in Canadialand or Germany? I know the Type 4 was made in both.

Thankfully I'm all set as far as CLA goes. The previous owner was a collector, had it CLA'd and put 50 rolls of film through in on a Euro trip earlier this year. He had it checked by a Leica tech after and was told previous CLA should hold up for a long time.

cliveh · May 14, 2016

tedr1 said:
For those concerned about shutter burn I suggest a simple test. Test each lens off the camera on a day with full sun, try to burn your skin using the lens as a burning glass. If you can't burn your skin the lens won't burn your shutter. I tried this simple test with a variety of lenses and got results that surprised me. I could get a burn using a simple magnifying glass (I tried two, one glass one plastic, both burned), and a vintage long focus repro lens. Using five camera lenses, two of them vintage and uncoated and three modern coated, none burned. Using two enlarging lenses, both modern and coated there was no burn. A possible explanation seems to be that not all lenses focus infra-red radiation, some may block it, and those that do block it don't burn. It would seem wise to make this simple test on the lenses before using the camera.

Thank you, I rest my case.

Theo Sulphate · May 14, 2016

Helinophoto said:
I have a question about these M3's:
Have anyone here experienced problems with the focusing-prism coming loose?
...

I have two M3's - no issues. The rangefinder patches are clear, bright, accurate, and the formed split image is easy to discern.

tedr1 said:
For those concerned about shutter burn I suggest a simple test. ... It would seem wise to make this simple test on the lenses before using the camera.

Fair enough. I'll try it as soon as we get some bright sun. Expect a report back in August.

Theo Sulphate · May 14, 2016

Regarding infrared, I don't think any lenses block infrared - otherwise how could infrared photos be made? Typically, an infrared filter is put on a lens to block visible light and let infrared through.

Here is a link to someone who did the lens test and *did* burn their shutter:

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5909

cliveh · May 14, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
Regarding infrared, I don't think any lenses block infrared - otherwise how could infrared photos be made? Typically, an infrared filter is put on a lens to block visible light and let infrared through.

Here is a link to someone who did the lens test and *did* burn their shutter:

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5909

I don't believe them and will carry out my own test. Suggest you do the same.

cuthbert · May 16, 2016

The "traditional" choice for a M3 would be the Summicron DR, if you want something newer I would recommend the new Nokton wasp waist, very good and reasonably priced lens.

ColColt · May 16, 2016

My 50 f2 DR serves double duty on the M4 as well as the M3...none better, IMHO.

_1DF4382a by David Fincher, on Flickr

FoidPoosening · May 16, 2016

ColColt said:
My 50 f2 DR serves double duty on the M4 as well as the M3...none better, IMHO.

Was the 50 DR ever produced in black?

ColColt · May 16, 2016

Not that I can recall.

summicron1 · May 16, 2016

Helinophoto said:
I have a question about these M3's:
Have anyone here experienced problems with the focusing-prism coming loose?

From what I've read, they actually used a glue that is coming apart these days, so most (that's what I read) need to be serviced, having the focus-prism (that create the double-image in the focusing-patch), re-glued.

That has kept me away from the M3's, since I don't exactly live in a place, blooming with Leica mechanics.

Any truth to these claims? The silver M3 sure is a looker, would love to have one.

it can happen, and when it does the viewfinder goes dark, very discouraging. I saw a camera that had that happen to it, so I know it does happen.

But probably not a lot. The balsam that Leica used to glue things together can age, but it is slow. About 30 years ago Leica, after servicing my M3, told me that the prism in the finder was starting, around the edges, to show signs of separation. Here I am 30 years later, it still works fine.

So it does happen, yes, but don't lose sleep over it.

cooltouch · May 18, 2016

Geez, so many responses, I'm not gonna read through them all. Just my own two cents. I owned an M3 some years ago and ended up selling it to a guy who wanted it just a whole lot more than I did. It was a cool camera an I enjoyed it. Mine was a double stroke, which I didn't mind.

Now as for a lens, when it comes to Leica, you can spend a ton of money, but you don't need to. One of the sharpest lenses Leica ever made was the venerable old collapsible 50mm f/3.5 Elmar. It might not be all that fast, but its sharpness is simply amazing.

gone · May 18, 2016

An M3 was my first Leica, paired w 50 DR. Great setup, but heavy. I would have to agree that you can't improve on a DR for a 50. I also agree that a clean Elmar 50 3.5 is a heck of a lens, as is a 50 Summicron collapsible and a 50 2 Summar. So you have some great lens choices. Later I bought an 90 Elmar C for mine, and you could do pretty much anything w/ those 2 lenses. I don't like the new Leica glass. Too expensive for what get, and while sharp, the bokeh and IQ is not as pleasing. Finally sold that setup and found that a $50 Nikkormat w/ an H 50 2 lens gave me photos that were just as nice, and paired w/ a Leica R 90 2.8 Elmarit on an adapter, you could take much better portraits. A SLR is better suited for that.

Other than the fiddley film loading scheme and the caution about not leaving the camera in the car or something w/ the lens stopped down and facing the sun, it's just a camera. Everything else is the same. I would think that you can set something on fire if you take a stopped down lens and set it directly facing the sun for a while, but it has to be stopped down and held at the right distance. Never tried that, but the concrete under my lenses got scorching hot when I did this to kill fungus in Florida noon sun for a few hours. This won't remove fungus (have to open it up do that, and if it's between cemented elements your goose is cooked), but will certainly kill it.

cuthbert · May 18, 2016

cooltouch said:
Geez, so many responses, I'm not gonna read through them all. Just my own two cents. I owned an M3 some years ago and ended up selling it to a guy who wanted it just a whole lot more than I did. It was a cool camera an I enjoyed it. Mine was a double stroke, which I didn't mind.

Now as for a lens, when it comes to Leica, you can spend a ton of money, but you don't need to. One of the sharpest lenses Leica ever made was the venerable old collapsible 50mm f/3.5 Elmar. It might not be all that fast, but its sharpness is simply amazing.

Leica is not photography, is a sort of cult.

While I like the cameras, the lenses have reached a ludicrous price so I recommend to use Cosina, they are good...while a film Leica body is not that expensive.

Few shots I've taken with the Nokton:

ColColt · May 18, 2016

A good 50 f2 DR can be had for a decent price as is the Rigid lens and CLA'd if needed by Youxin Ye and you'll be hard pressed to find better...unless you're willing to part with $2k or more for a new Summicron.

FoidPoosening · May 18, 2016

Really cool to see all the responses in here.

Summicron f2 type 4 came in the mail today

ColColt said:
Not that I can recall.

Saw one on eBay the other day. Fun fact, they made only around 10 of them in Black. Staggering price.

Shot a roll of film with my M3 and f2 Summicron 50mm today, but won't have time to get it developed until after my test in June. Answered my own question on the Summicron type 4 lenses being made in both Canada and Germany... it says where it was made on the bottom of the lens.

What are everyone's thoughts on using the M3 with a MR4 meter? Getting one just for indoor use/trickier lighting situations, but will definitely go without a meter on any normal day.

summicron1 · May 18, 2016

What are everyone's thoughts on using the M3 with a MR4 meter? Getting one just for indoor use/trickier lighting situations, but will definitely go without a meter on any normal day.[/QUOTE]

use one all the time. no problem. The shutter speed readout on the meter is a titch different than what the camera is set at, but no matter, set a speed, select an f-stop, ur there.

Patrick Robert James · May 18, 2016

I would skip the MR4 and get a nice handheld meter unless you are interested in the process or nostalgia. A small incident meter will be more accurate and probably less expensive.

First time Leica owner: advice?

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