First time in the Darkroom

[brofkand]

As promised by my other post (my greeting post in Introductions), here are the results:



The other two pics I printed yesterday are in my flickr feed (flickr.com/photos/brofkand).

How did I do?

 

[rwyoung]

Good for you!

 

[snallan]

Looking good. Are you enjoying the darkroom work?

I still enjoy working on my darkroom tan, even after nearly 40 years, on-and-off!

 

[CBG]

Waaaaay better than my first darkroom work!

Congrats.

C

 

[brofkand]

I guess now I can admit my mistake since I've gotten undeserved praise: I used the stock solution of Dektol rather than a working solution for about 5 prints, and they came out all dark. I only developed these pictures for 40 seconds, otherwise they would be all black. I have more dektol on order from Freestyle, and once it comes in I'll print some more.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I guess now I can admit my mistake: I used the stock solution of Dektol.

Aha! That's how you lucked out.

Most first efforts are a blah grey-on-grey. Beginners are usually timid about providing enough exposure and enough development. Additionally, the safelights are rarely safe enough and the highlights tend to fog.

 

[brofkand]

I have 2 more pouches of Dektol on order. I'll mix the stock solution, store it, and mix up enough working solution as I'll need for that session.

I do have one more question: How long does powdered fixer last when mixed to it's stock solution? I have a pouch of powdered fix that makes 1 gallon of stock solution, then mixed 1:1 to form working solution.

 

[srs5694]

First, I've a sneaking suspicion you may be using too much volume of chemicals, but I'm not positive -- it depends on your print size, the size of that first pouch of Dektol you bought, etc. As a point of comparison, I most often print on paper of up to 8x10 inches in trays that are slightly bigger than that (maybe 9x11 inches). I use 1 liter of solution in my trays. When I used Dektol, I'd pour it back into a bottle and re-use it for another session or two after the first one, with no noticeable problems. (I now use another developer that works with a replenisher more-or-less indefinitely.) If you used an entire gallon packet of Dektol, even at working strength, to develop a handful of 8x10 prints in your first session, then you definitely used more volume than you needed to, even aside from your dilution error. If your packet was smaller or if you started with much bigger prints, then that might not be true. You need just enough solution to cover your prints comfortably; you shouldn't be coming anywhere close to filling your trays to the brim. In fact, my standard of 1 liter is probably more than I need; I just use that much because it's a convenient size, given the bottles I use. I think that 750ml would probably be enough, and maybe even just 500ml. You can test using your own trays.

As to the longevity of fixer, that depends on the specific fixer. Some, such as "plain fixer" (sodium thiosulfate in water, with nothing else added) goes bad almost immediately. Most commercial powdered fixers ought to last at least a couple of months in stock solution. IIRC, Kodak prints recommended maximum keeping times on their packets, so if you're buying Kodak fixer, check what the package says.

FWIW, a lot of people prefer rapid fixers because they're more, well, rapid than conventional fixers. Commercial rapid fixers usually (always?) come in liquid concentrate form, and most of them are less expensive than non-rapid fixers. The drawback is that most or all of them have at least a hint of an ammonium odor, and this odor is rather strong for some of them. In concentrate form, rapid fixers typically last several months.

 

[J Ollinger]

Fixer lasts quite a while--like a couple months. It's a good idea to buy one of those little bottles of Hypo-Chek (or whatever they're called now) and test it periodically.

 

[brofkand]

The Dektol was the pouch that makes 1 liter. I made 1 liter and used about half that in my tray. I poured it back in an air-evac bottle, and I'm thinking since I used the stock solution I should be able to get at least a few more prints out of it. I just bought more since it's pretty cheap and I will need it sooner or later. Might as well buy it now when I have the extra money.

The fixer I'm using is Arista brand fixer. I used the bottled form, and it worked great. I bought the powder since you get more for the same price. I'll try it out and see.

One more question: Are dark bottles important? I have a gallon jug for the fixer, but it's just a milk jug so it isn't dark. Should I actually get a dark bottle, paint this one dark with a $1 can of spray paint, or not worry about it?

 

[srs5694]

Concerning fixer prices, the last time I checked the average liquid rapid fixer cost less than the average powdered fixer; however, that was a couple of years ago, and it's possible that prices have changed since then. You've got to pay very close attention to dilution ratios and capacity when comparing prices.

As to dark bottles, I've been wondering that myself. Certainly conventional wisdom is to use dark bottles, but I'm not sure how helpful this is. If the room in which the bottles are stored is normally dark, it won't make much difference. Even if not, I don't know how much of the conventional wisdom is really wisdom vs. darkroom legend. I would advise against spray paint, though. I tried this myself at one time. The problem is that the paint will eventually flake off the bottles, and some of what flakes off inevitably winds up inside the bottles, which is precisely where you don't want it.

 

[fschifano]

I've never found it necessary to use dark amber bottles. My stuff is kept in the darkroom, so it doesn't matter. If you cant do that, just get a big enough box to hold your bottles and put a lid on it. I still don't think it matters unless you keep them where direct sunlight can hit them.

 

[brofkand]

Now that's an idea! Just keep your stuff in a box. It is elegant in its simplicity.

 

[MattKing]

I use Rubbermaid or similar tubs, with lids, which help protect against any problems with spills, control odours, and make moving chemistry into my bathroom/darkroom or kitchen more efficient.

They also would be good for those who have infants or toddlers (the lids latch strongly).

Matt

 

[Mike Wilde]

bottles guidance

The undiluted developer stock solution once mixed wants to oxidize things.

Usually we want it to be the photo paper. It is just as happy to oxidize on the oxygen that migrates, yes slowly, but still, though most plastics.

So I use glass for storing developers. I also sometimes store developers in the fridge, since lowering the temperature slows down the auto-oxidation rate. (Don't freeze, things will likely crystallize out.) So I went with amber glass bottles so others know that it isn't in there to eat. At one time there was in my past a near incident with old developer and a glass Coke bottle being used for storage so I am now careful.

Don't get fancy bottles for fix. I use empty 2L pop bottles with all labels removed. Sometimes after a while, when you forget how long it has been, it will sulfate out and you will be left with a sulfur stained bottle that you will want to toss. I just use it to exhaustion, tape on a label of what it is and take it to the HHW depot so the silver dissolved in it can be safely managed and recovered.

 

[Wade D]

A good source of cheap or free 1 gal. amber bottles is your local pharmacy.
Once the contents are used up they usually throw them away in the trash.
I have 10 or so of these that were free for the asking. Is amber really necessary? Like others have said probably not but at that price you can't go wrong. Of course keeping the bottles full reduces oxidation but if you print a lot that shouldn't be a problem. Looks like you're off to a good start. Enjoy!

 

[2F/2F]

You may find liquid concentrate chemicals to be preferable, and possibly less error prone. It makes things very quick and convenient, and also reduces the amount of the stuff that ends up in the air, and possibly your (or your family's or your pets') lungs.

 

[fotch]

A good source of cheap or free 1 gal. amber bottles is your local pharmacy.
............ Enjoy!

Wow, what luck. I use to do that years ago and so, I thought I would try that where I live, SE WI. Well, all they have is amber plastic, not the best plastic for photo storage either. Maybe if I could find an old phamarcy however, everything seems to be either Walgreens or Walmart.

 

[f/stopblues]

The big brown glass bottles that pharmacies use come from bulk liquid medication or chemicals, like liquid compounding bases, etc. Your best bet are pharmacies that do a lot of compounding, like a children's hospital. Any hospital will deal with that sort of thing, though. You can check with both the inpatient and outpatient pharmacies. Beware though, they tend to be very busy places so saving bottles may not be at the top of their list

Of course, you'll need to wash the bottles very thoroughly! Hopefully they don't give you one that had something hazardous in it!

 

[fotch]

Thanks Chris. I been looking in the wrong places. I did get some assorted sizes that will be useful, from a friend of mine who is a chemistry Professor at a local collage.

I cleaned them out with soap & water, maybe some bleach, I don't remember but they still seem to have the smell of the prior contents. I am concerned that if I can smell it, its still there.

Can you suggest a better cleaning method?

Thanks again
Jim

 

[srs5694]

One tip I heard recently is to fill the bottles with household bleach, let them sit overnight, then drain them and wash them normally. I've not tried this, though, and I'm not sure if the bleach has to be undiluted or if diluted bleach would work.

 

[brofkand]

The problem with plastic is it is slightly porous, so anything that sits in it for a while will begin to soak in.

Glass is the best bet, but nobody (especially medical) uses glass bottles anymore. They're more expensive to make, and in this new world of (thankfully) $4 generics every dime counts.

 

[J Ollinger]

My beef against glass is that it shatters when you drop it. Plastic just tends to split. Since some darkroom chemicals are a bit slimy/slippery (MQ developers come to mind), they're a little harder to handle, especially if you're cleaning them.

I've cleaned up broken glass and chemicals that hit the floor, and it isn't fun at all. I prefer plastic storage bottles.

 

[brass majestic]

On the subject of using brown glass bottles; If you've ever in your life noticed, many brands of beer and wine are sold in dark brown bottles with screw tops. I have several 40 oz beer bottles and 750 L wine bottles. As some of us may also know, wine bottles can be very decorative in their designs and can really "dress up" your darkroom shelves. They all do have to be thoroughly rinsed out to get rid of lingering odors, especially wine.
On cleaning out bottles with developer stains, etc inside; Bleach is good. I have also used sulfuric acid in extremely small amounts mixed with water FIRST before pouring into the bottle and letting that sit for a while. But this stuff is very toxic and every caution should be followed. At first I made the mistake of pouring some straight sulfuric acid right into a glass bottle and immediately the bottle cracked and the bottom fell out. I use bleach now and a good bottle brush.
Good Luck, Russ

 

[fotch]

At first I made the mistake of pouring some straight sulfuric acid right into a glass bottle and immediately the bottle cracked and the bottom fell out. I use bleach now and a good bottle brush.
Good Luck, Russ

WOW! I think I will try the bleach first. What ever I use, I would rather have something that could go into my septic tank rather than disposing of it elsewhere. I am in a rural area and there are no hazardous waste dumps nearby. Or maybe let it evaporate outside then dispose of the sludge.