First roll of Harman Phoenix photos up!

BrianShaw

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George Mann said:
Only time will tell. But if people don't support it, you can most likely kiss any future efforts goodby.
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For sure. An angel investor would help too…

And no matter how anyone interprets my opinion, be it known that I wish Harman well and great future success on this and their current product lines.
 

Flighter

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I don't think, from memory, the price in the UK is out of line with what Adox Color Mission, Wolfen NC400 and NC500 sold for when they were available.
 

Agulliver

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@BrianShaw I doubt they'd register trademarks, set up a whole website, and set up several social media accounts for a one-off or short term project. The intention is absolutely for research and development to continue into better colour films.

Phoenix isn't quite what we thought it was. We sussed out it was a medium speed C41 colour film but the rest, we were wrong. That's no doubt a disappointment to some of us....but there is a method to the apparent madness. Harman have come up with something they clearly feel they can sell, and recoup enough money to fund further research. At least one retailer (FirstCall) say they'll have more Phoenix in March so there's definitely more on the way, and perhaps the next batch will be slightly improved. Not that I intend to buy some of every slightly improved edition, but with revisions and feedback from users they'll get closer to what a sector of the market wants.

It looks that, for now at least, they're not going for the apparently lucrative good but amateur C41 sector (Fuji C/Superia, Kodak CP/Gold/Ultramax). But neither is this some deliberately "defective" special effects film. It's curious, it's not quite what most of us hoped or expected, but those folks at Harman aren't stupid.
 

BrianShaw

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I wish I could be that gang-gang. No doubt, their intentions are honorable and hopeful for future profitability. It’s the probability of success that I’m wondering about. So far even the most ardent Harman Phoenix supporters seem to be energized primarily by assumption, guesswork, skillful sleuthing, and hope. Not much insider knowledge that has been confirmed, which s perfectly reasonable. It’s all good. Sure, lots and lots of small purchases can add up but that’s a really difficult way to raise money like probably is needed to recoup initial startup costs and iterate at the same time. And it seems even less likely when lots of people may be indicating that they will wait and see where the situation goes before buying more than just a souvenir roll or two. As GeoMann said quite succinctly… “only time will tell.” I’ll now rest and watch for some period of time.
 
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Anon Ymous

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Flighter said:
I don't think, from memory, the price in the UK is out of line with what Adox Color Mission, Wolfen NC400 and NC500 sold for when they were available.
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Adox Color Mission is priced at 14,99€ at Fotoimpex at the moment.
 

BMbikerider

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I remember the original Ilfocolour film which went off the market perhaps40 years ago. The photographer who I engaged to take on the task of photographing my 1st wedding used Ilfocolour and the prints were superb. After 40 years+, they have faded a little, but what colour pictures from the same period haven't .

I am sure that any later offerings will be worked upon by Harman/Ilford and improved. Until it has been thoroughly 'road-tested' I will let the others do the testing rather than me - it is cheaper than way.

The next question from me is I wonder if they will make their own C41 developer kit. They did when the 1st version of XP2 hit the market. It was supposed to make the image slightly sharper (like Rodinal) but I think there was so little difference it was discontinued. However the C41 kits available now are very thin on the ground (Fuji, Bellini and recently JOBO) so another source of supply would not go amiss.
 

Overrank

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William Sheepskin (a small-time influencer with 14k subscribers on YouTube) made a comment a while ago about prices going up. He said there are three groups of people who buy film, professionals, who shoot a lot of film but pass the costs on, newbies / amateurs, who shoot a roll or two a year, but there are a lot of them, and they are pretty price insensitive (because they don’t shoot much), and (I’m paraphrasing) everyone on the internet, who shoots enough to be price sensitive, but pay for it themselves. His point was the third group are the loudest about prices going up, but probably of the least interest to film manufacturers, because collectively they use the least. I suspect Harman are going for the two or three rolls, but lots of them, market rather than most of the people who post on here (myself included).
 

Dustin McAmera

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Anon Ymous said:
Adox Color Mission is priced at 14,99€ at Fotoimpex at the moment.
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Thanks for pointing that out! I went and ordered some, and some CHS100ii in 120.
I have also ordered one of those two-roll packs of Phoenix.

Now I need (I always need) a large pack of get-up-and-go and an arse-kicking machine, to get me out of the house.
 

pentaxuser

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So only 12 months from "soup to nuts" Now that's quick by anyone's standard. Maybe on that timescale the next improved version will follow in a matter of months and we'll have a Portra quality by this time next year? Maybe the narrator has played down its current quality deliberately but if she hasn't then at £14 a go based on Firstcall's price I'll pass until the next version at least and unless that's better and hopefully cheaper I might pass again

If the real market is the small volume users( say up to 6 films per year) who for that reason are price indifferent then why will they buy this quality when for a few pound more they can get Ektar or Portra?

It might be the unseasonably cold weather here in the U.K. for 1 December but what I have learned now does not leave me with a warm glow

Still we haven't seen enough examples yet to come to a definitive judgement. Let's hope that it's a better film than the current vibrations suggest it is

pentaxuser
 

George Mann

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pentaxuser said:
If the real market is the small volume users( say up to 6 films per year) who for that reason are price indifferent then why will they buy this quality when for a few pound more they can get Ektar or Portra?
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Because it's sufficiently different!
 

BrianShaw

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radialMelt said:
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Thanks! Very informative. Now I’m even more polarized. And very surprised that there was no apparent appropriate adjustment to the scanning. A complete oversight that seems a severe impediment to showing the new product in its best light.
 

LeoniD

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radialMelt said:
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It LITERALLY looks like Svema DS 4, it's like they opened a portal into 1992(or 1972, DS 4 was in production for a really long time) and yoinked a master-roll from Svema, even sensibilisation bug is still there(red->orangeish red). Well, minus the extreme contrast, I have a feeling that pulling won't do much here
 

cerber0s

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You guys are funny! A couple of (more than a couple) pages back it was totally impossible that Harman would release a C41 film. Just would not happen. Now they seem to have done the impossible, while clearly stating it’s a step towards a new and improved formula, and it’s not good enough. Tough crowd!

I’ve been holding off until today on getting papers and chemicals from Fotompex, because I wanted to include a roll of the Harman Phoenix too. It turns out that waiting 26 minutes after the release was too long. It’s sold out.
 
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