Any ideas, people?
Ask them to scan as color slides and do the post processing yourself.
I just developed and scanned my second roll. It was exposed at ISO 200 and seems under-exposed. Not too bad, since it has a bit of glow in the dark vibe.
For example:
Because they can't afford to not sell it. They don't have the ability to throw out a large batch of film just because it isn't ideal. Selling it will enable them to make improvements on the next batch. And the market currently likes film with "character".
First rate colour film is already available from Kodak.
IMO, this is just a cynical run at generating some fast cash from a seriously uncompleted film.
What also escapes me is the suggestion that Ilford/Harmon needs to get revenue from sale of this product in order to fund finishing its development to a completed product. We are talking about the second largest film producer in the world today.
. Most people wanting extreme colour accuracy, detail, and sharpness haven't touched film in 20 years.
Don, it sounds as if those people haven't touched colour film for 20 years because even the best of colour film doesn't match what digital gives them in terms of quality or gives the rest of us for that matter.
Completely agree with @GabrielC above. I cannot fathom the negativity here. Harman are being completely open about what Phoenix is, and isn't. Maybe some of us got our hopes up regarding how close to "normal" it would be during the social media campaign but once it was revealed and explained, I was one of those who took the plunge and bought some. Not because I think it's the greatest thing since sliced Kodachrome, but because I want to try it and to support Harman in their ultimate goal of making something that is on a par with Kodak's offerings.
I am unsure if they could actually have made a very small batch....don't they have a minimum master roll size? But that's beside the point. We all know the financial numbers if we actually care enough to look....because Harman are obliged to make publicly available annual accounts. They've been picked over in this very thread. Harman are a healthy company, though not swimming in profits. They are in no way struggling and suggesting they might be close to insolvency is frankly both ludicrous and insulting.
It's really quite simple. Harman could quite happily have continued making the B&W products and a few sidelines such as the dark tent. They'd have gone along quite healthily for the foreseeable future and likely beyond. But seeing as consumer grade C41 film is both popular and in short supply, with Kodak effectively being the only coater now, they decided to diversify their business into colour film. That does require a lot of R&D and it will take time to perfect. Part of the R&D funding will come from sales of the Phoenix film.
If you don't want to buy Phoenix now, that's perfectly understandable and reasonable. If you do, that's also perfectly fine. But ask yourself this.....would you prefer a world where Harman stuck to B&W alone, or at least tried to make colour film? Because those are your two choices. You don't have to take part in the journey by buying the experimental film over the next few years, but you also don't have to poo-poo the project.
Only Kodak, Fuji, Agfa, Konica and perhaps Ferrania ever mastered production of C41 film. Four or five companies which were *huge* and investing tens of not hundreds of millions into R&D at the time. Harman may be the world's second biggest film manufacturer these days but they're still tiny compared to those behemoths of decades past. In those days, those companies could afford to "waste" the experiments that weren't up to scratch. Harman likely can't....and that doesn't mean they're in financial trouble, it simply means they're not a huge multinational company able to spend many millions on R&D on one product for several years running before seeing any return. You can bet that the money raised from selling Phoenix goes into further R&D and incremental steps towards making a film we'd all like to buy. Nobody in the film manufacturing world is getting rich. Nobody is in it to cream off the profits. Because even Eastman-Kodak are running on something like a 5% profit margin. And they're the biggest, most successful company currently in the business.
This is a journey, and we're all welcome to follow either as observers or as participants. Or choose not to follow. But sniping and making false allegations about Harman's finances is, IMHO, not on. By all means criticise what you see in Phoenix because it's clearly not a "normal" film and isn't suitable for every day use. It works in the specific circumstances Harman recommend. Outside of that, it's a crap shoot. But they are clear about that crap shoot. They're not even doing the Lomography spiel of coming up with some inventive hype. Harman have basically said "Here it is, here's how we think it's best used....have fun". I had fun with my first roll but am unsure what I'll do with my second. But I will shoot it, and probably have fun doing so.
I really can’t fathom some people response to Harman Phoenix.
Frankly, we’re at a point where some things we couldn’t believe would happen even two years ago..
I get it that it is frankly disappointing compared to kodak's or fuji's offerings. However, as they said in many of their videos, it's only the step they're at right now, with only one year of experience.
I looked at many forum posts of the past, and it looked like many people thought that film coating is so complicated it can't really be done by any factory that didn't make some at any point in the past, or had some coating lines that did (ferrania, etc). And now we have one if not the most respectable actor of the film market that is making some new colour film out of nowhere, with pleasant colours, albeit with many problems that they're well aware of. I believe, they have at least an idea of how to improve upon it. They're being 100% transparent it seems.
Now, people don't want to buy a subpar film, that's fine, each their own, but saying they are scamming people is complete nonsense. Kodak skewed the outlook on film production maybe, it IS hard to do, and if we had to wait for them to get to kodak's level to sell coulour, we wouldn't see any new film for a decade, or even at all. I think it is important to vote with our wallets, if you can and if you want to.
Finally, when it comes to the quality of the film itself, I haven't finished a roll yet, but looking at this test by a film lab (link) , it can produce gorgeous result under the right conditions. The real dealbraker for me would be halation, but I will still help their quest for colour, as I did for color mission and Adox.
Whether it does or not in reality doesn't matter since it's what people believe.
I understand "down under" is maybe a bit more challenging than some other places in terms of getting hold of materials, esp. chemistry. However, there are several others (also on Photrio) who seem to have found ways to source what they need. Maybe create a thread on this somewhere and ask for advice? I'm sure some of your fellow countrymen can come up with suggestions.
Completely agree with @GabrielC above. I cannot fathom the negativity here. Harman are being completely open about what Phoenix is, and isn't. Maybe some of us got our hopes up regarding how close to "normal" it would be during the social media campaign but once it was revealed and explained, I was one of those who took the plunge and bought some. Not because I think it's the greatest thing since sliced Kodachrome, but because I want to try it and to support Harman in their ultimate goal of making something that is on a par with Kodak's offerings.
I am unsure if they could actually have made a very small batch....don't they have a minimum master roll size? But that's beside the point. We all know the financial numbers if we actually care enough to look....because Harman are obliged to make publicly available annual accounts. They've been picked over in this very thread. Harman are a healthy company, though not swimming in profits. They are in no way struggling and suggesting they might be close to insolvency is frankly both ludicrous and insulting.
It's really quite simple. Harman could quite happily have continued making the B&W products and a few sidelines such as the dark tent. They'd have gone along quite healthily for the foreseeable future and likely beyond. But seeing as consumer grade C41 film is both popular and in short supply, with Kodak effectively being the only coater now, they decided to diversify their business into colour film. That does require a lot of R&D and it will take time to perfect. Part of the R&D funding will come from sales of the Phoenix film.
If you don't want to buy Phoenix now, that's perfectly understandable and reasonable. If you do, that's also perfectly fine. But ask yourself this.....would you prefer a world where Harman stuck to B&W alone, or at least tried to make colour film? Because those are your two choices. You don't have to take part in the journey by buying the experimental film over the next few years, but you also don't have to poo-poo the project.
Only Kodak, Fuji, Agfa, Konica and perhaps Ferrania ever mastered production of C41 film. Four or five companies which were *huge* and investing tens of not hundreds of millions into R&D at the time. Harman may be the world's second biggest film manufacturer these days but they're still tiny compared to those behemoths of decades past. In those days, those companies could afford to "waste" the experiments that weren't up to scratch. Harman likely can't....and that doesn't mean they're in financial trouble, it simply means they're not a huge multinational company able to spend many millions on R&D on one product for several years running before seeing any return. You can bet that the money raised from selling Phoenix goes into further R&D and incremental steps towards making a film we'd all like to buy. Nobody in the film manufacturing world is getting rich. Nobody is in it to cream off the profits. Because even Eastman-Kodak are running on something like a 5% profit margin. And they're the biggest, most successful company currently in the business.
This is a journey, and we're all welcome to follow either as observers or as participants. Or choose not to follow. But sniping and making false allegations about Harman's finances is, IMHO, not on. By all means criticise what you see in Phoenix because it's clearly not a "normal" film and isn't suitable for every day use. It works in the specific circumstances Harman recommend. Outside of that, it's a crap shoot. But they are clear about that crap shoot. They're not even doing the Lomography spiel of coming up with some inventive hype. Harman have basically said "Here it is, here's how we think it's best used....have fun". I had fun with my first roll but am unsure what I'll do with my second. But I will shoot it, and probably have fun doing so.
They have under 100 employees and 5 million (euros? Pounds? Dollars?) per year in sales. How can they afford this kind of project in any other way?
They have under 100 employees and 5 million (euros? Pounds? Dollars?) per year in sales.
To what I remember, Foma did produce some color films. Dunno if it was Orwo that produced it.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?