First roll of Harman Phoenix photos up!

Molli

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The light table is just a generic A3 size flat light panel. The snapshot of the negatives was taken on my mobile phone. Nothing fancy, but fairly true to life and my eye. The "contact sheet" from the lab is actually a screenshot of the lab's scans taken from my computer screen in Adobe Bridge.
I've got a small Stouffer 21 Step Wedge I can include.... even got a Shirley floating around here somewhere. I did do a quick inversion of that phone photo and can't say it's worth the effort. I can get close with a global correction, but I'm left with the rebate being a rather violent maroon.

Thanks again for your experience with this film - and colour in general - and for taking the time to share and help. As I mentioned, colour's not really my thing and I was really depending on those lab scans to find out what Phoenix is "supposed" to look like, but I was left even more clueless.
 

koraks

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You're very welcome. It's a film like no other, that's for sure. I'm still puzzled what might have happened to the film you've got there. It looks very odd!
 

Molli

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I really like the results you're getting with Harman Phoenix, Mr. McAmera.
I was looking forward to being able to make a comparison with photos taken in completely different light, with very different scenery, on the opposite side of the world and the opposite season.... but apparently I don't have 'normal' negatives to make that comparison.
So, that leaves me to just enjoy the scenery, which I am. The colour palette works so well there and I'm curious to know if these are Harman's scans without further adjustments made by you? It almost has that cyan/orange split colour grading so popular in movies over the past decade or two.
 

Molli

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koraks said:
You're very welcome. It's a film like no other, that's for sure. I'm still puzzled what might have happened to the film you've got there. It looks very odd!
Click to expand...

I have another four rolls to play with and I could send one up to Melbourne to see what they get out of it, but it's pretty pricey to send it away.
It's bizarre, I sent film away without a thought as a kid, but now the idea makes me very nervous!
I really wish I could get my hands on an affordable C-41 kit (and RA4, too) and do this all myself.
 

Agulliver

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I've only had one roll processed so far but it wasn't a deep magenta/purple base like yours.

I do know that my local lab is having trouble scanning Phoenix, something they probably need to take up with Harman as they use an Agfa DLab2 and not the more usual Fuji machines. It is a film like no other, as Koraks says. But yours does look even more unusual than the mine or others I've seen here and at my local lab.
 

koraks

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Molli said:
I really wish I could get my hands on an affordable C-41 kit (and RA4, too) and do this all myself.
Click to expand...

I can only encourage you to give it a go. I understand "down under" is maybe a bit more challenging than some other places in terms of getting hold of materials, esp. chemistry. However, there are several others (also on Photrio) who seem to have found ways to source what they need. Maybe create a thread on this somewhere and ask for advice? I'm sure some of your fellow countrymen can come up with suggestions.
 

foc

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Molli said:
At any rate, my lab scans are unusable.
Click to expand...

If a normal C41 film with mask showed this type of magenta cast and not solid blacks, it would suggest underactive / oxidised developer usually caused by low throughput or under replenished.

However, this is just speculation on my part as the Phoenix film is one of a kind.

Has this lab a good reputation?
 

lamerko

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I plan to test my first roll in ECN-2 chemistry. I won't have reference values, but it will be an interesting attempt to tone down the contrast. But it's really a funny film
 

koraks

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lamerko said:
it will be an interesting attempt to tone down the contrast.
Click to expand...

Shadow detail (which is scant to begin with) will disappear along with the lower gamma.

One promising route with this film that came up in another thread is the possibility of reversal processing it. This is something I might actually try one of these days.
 

lamerko

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I have two rolls, one I promised myself I would turn. But I wondered about the other one. Actually, I can split it into two - that way I'll have some basis for comparison...
 

Dustin McAmera

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Thanks for your kind words!
I sent my film to Harman Lab for developing and scanning, and uploaded the scans exactly as they were. I reasoned that Harman themselves can probably do their own film justice as well as anyone, and they're only about sixty-five miles away. I just had the email that they've received my fourth, torn-off half-roll, together with a jumble of three cassettes that were just in the cupboard (hope I didn't photograph anything disreputable..).

I was selective in what I uploaded; a lot of my files were just too dark, or had impenetrable shadows. I tried opening one of the scan files from Harman in Elements, to see if I could lighten the shadows a bit; but I think I'd need to make a fresh scan. I haven't run my scanner for a while, and I never rated my scanning skills that highly anyhow. So what I uploaded was what I got from Harman.

My film looks a lot like korak's: almost Prussian-blue.

In your (Molli's) own scans you've reached more naturalistic colours though. I like the richness of the colours of the beach huts. If it weren't for the grain of the Phoenix, they might be transparencies.

This Phoenix is the first film I have sent away to get developed for years. I once saw a guy at Flickr showing his home-developed stuff, and was encouraged to try a c41 kit. I'd always 'known' that colour developing was 'too hard - too temperature-sensitive', and that made getting even the least success at it great fun. I think I might still have one Tetenal kit in the cupboard; it will be showing its age if so. I have got into a habit of doing colour with digital. The main thing with colour kits is to use them quickly, once you've made them up. I found it easier to develop at low temperature, to get longer times, where my inaccuracy over time taken pouring in and out matters less. I tried E-6 too, and never will again; even using gloves, I got eczema up both arms that stayed for a week.

I see Adox is proposing to offer a two-bath C41 kit, a replication of Tetenal's kit. Already marked as sold out, for now:

ADOX C-Tec C-41 Negativ Kit Rapid for 12-16 films to mix 1000 ml - fotoimpex.com analogue photography

Succesor for the Tetenal Colortec Kit. Made in Germany by ADOX. Color Negative C-41 chemistry (2-bath) for a handheld tank or rotary process consisiting of the color ...
www.fotoimpex.com
 

blee1996

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@Molli I like your scans a lot. They show the film's character (high contrast, some color shifts, less details in shadows and highlights), but still well color balanced and matching real world scenes in a unique way.

I shot one roll but yet to develop and scan it myself. May I ask if you would be able to share your scan and post processing steps? Scan as negative or positive? White balance by picking neutral points in the photo? Any other adjustment, e.g. contrast, curves, sharpening? Thanks in advance.
 

Agulliver

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@Molli

I've just seen a roll of Phoenix on Harman's instagram feed that looks a lot like yours in terms of the base colour. I wonder if they have altered the film, in one of their intended steps towards "normal" film ?
 

koraks

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Agulliver said:
I wonder if they have altered the film, in one of their intended steps towards "normal" film ?
Click to expand...

Hey, I didn't think of that. Maybe @Molli's film is from the spring-2024 batch they promised last year. Thinking out loud, perhaps they've implemented a partial mask in this round, with a magenta masking dye for the cyan layer. If so, one would expect the next batch iteration to have an actual orange mask.
 

Meinrad

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Hello everybody,
oh this would be a pitty, because as written in the parallel thread due to the clear base it shouts for experimenting with cross developping to slides...
 

Agulliver

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That's my line of thinking. Maybe this is a step towards the standard orange mask? Because we know they ultimately intend to make a more "normal" C41 film.

I guess we will need to see more examples to draw any conclusions. But it's one possibility that explains this (so far) anomalous film.
 

Dustin McAmera

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I stand ready to be wrong, but: one person has shown us one roll of film with a different coloured margin. What seems more probable; that Harman has changed the formulation of their film, produced and sold a significantly different product, and not made any mention of it in their web or social media (no photo-walks in California, no influencers' tea-parties or free trials, no hints from dealers), and just one person in the world has noticed? Or might it just be that one lab has had trouble developing the film?
 

koraks

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Dustin McAmera said:
one person has shown us one roll of film with a different coloured margin.
Click to expand...

Well, there's this:
Agulliver said:
I've just seen a roll of Phoenix on Harman's instagram feed that looks a lot like yours in terms of the base colour.
Click to expand...

That's not one, but two people.
Moreover, I cannot think of a processing/chemical failure that would very specifically single out a significant magenta cast without other additional problems.
 

Dustin McAmera

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Well, there's this:


I've just seen a roll of Phoenix on Harman's instagram feed that looks a lot like yours in terms of the base colour.
Click to expand...

He did say that; and I follow Harman Photo on Instagram, but I can't see the post he means. A link would be interesting.
 

Dustin McAmera

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I went to look again at those 'prussian blue' negatives I said I had. Couldn't immediately find my last set, but I have got my first set, and they're pinker than I said. Also I see brbo's film in post 476 is pink (that's a little pinker than mine, I'd say, but it could be within the capability of the light-box and the internet to make up the difference). I will look again for my last set of negs in the morning; I'm still confident they're bluer than what I'm looking at here.

The set I have here is edge-marked 5660-12. I see brbo's is 5659-11. Molli's looks like 5656-11 though I'm not certain of that; and I can't read koraks's at all.
 
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Dustin McAmera

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I just got my last roll back. It's edge-marked 5660-12, like one of my earlier ones. The negatives I can find look bluer in daylight than under my houselights (which are mostly miniature fluorescent-coil things) - not very surprising.

I have one more roll of Phoenix in hand. I can get more over the counter when I want it. But I have a roll of Adox Color Mission loaded in a Zenit 3 now, and two more rolls of that to follow. I'm thinking about which cameras to shoot it in, and where..
 

blee1996

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This is my Phoenix 200 roll in sleeve on a light table. It does have the purple tint to the film base, and images look quite contrasty.

And here are the scanned photos from the roll. I shot the roll at ISO 200 in a Rollei 35 TE camera, developed in Bellini C41 at home as usual, scanned as color negatives in Nikon Scan with Coolscan V. Color balance needs most tweaking, otherwise things are pretty straightforward. The film has character, but not objectionably so.

Harman Phoenix 200

Harman Phoenix 200 - the new color negative film
flic.kr
 

koraks

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Well, looks like they're using regular C41 as a benchmark and then obviously run into trouble mostly because of that fundamental assumption. Had they looked at the datasheet, they would've understood they were up for something else.
Also, pity they didn't explore scanning it as E6 and then inverting & correcting afterwards. Again, a pretty straightforward option.
 
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