First roll of film through my Hasselblad 500C/M - It didn't go well

logan2z · Dec 15, 2019

btaylor said:
Expectations- tricky with vintage gear. You never really know what you’re getting, let’s be honest. Even if it is advertised as having a recent CLA— what was the quality of that work (unless there are receipts from a David Odess or similar)? Sometimes I think we get too focused on the exact dollars shelled out for a given piece of vintage gear and worry about what it will take to really make it sing when its a 50 year old piece of machinery. I bought my 500c/m from a member here, it seemed to work okay, but without a service history to know when it was last serviced I sent it off to have it CLA’d because I want to be sure this old thing is going to work perfectly the next time I ask it too. Hey, I got the camera I dreamed of that I could never afford when I was young, what’s a few dollars to be confident it lives up to my expectations? I’ll never sell it, but I will enjoy having and using it.

Believe it or not, I agree with this and usually follow this philosophy. I think the difference in this case is that I purposely bought from a reputable dealer rather than an individual seller on Craigslist/eBay because I assumed that the camera would have been checked out and put right if it was faulty prior to sale. I felt I paid a bit of a premium over private sellers for this 'guarantee'.

In the end, the few hundred or whatever dollars it will take to fix the issues with this camera won't be the end of the world, I just feel a bit let down by the seller and disappointed that the camera as delivered isn't in working condition.

logan2z · Dec 15, 2019

BradS said:
You haven't mentioned what "reputable shop" you bought it from but, be aware that KEH grade SLRs only on cosmetics - so, when they say that the condition of an SLR is "excellent" they mean ONLY that it looks good. It may be AFU and in my experience with them, when it comes to cameras, KEH EX often means, looks good but is AFU.

Hassleblads are money pits, if you're not willing to pay for the ongoing and never ending maintenance that they require, do yourself a favor and send it back ASAP.

It wasn't KEH and I realize that they grade on appearance only.

I mentioned this in the above post but it's probably worth repeating: It's not really about the money, I've bought lots of other money pits over the years (read: vintage Porsches ) and don't have any qualms about dumping money into something that gives me pleasure. This is more about trusting (or wrongly assuming) that this particular seller would have verified that the camera was in proper working condition before selling it in the stated condition and for a price that reflected that condition. So I guess you could say that it's more about principal and feeling let down than anything else.

But I'm still waiting to hear back from the dealer to see what they propose, this could have a happy ending.

BrianShaw · Dec 15, 2019

I truly hope it works out to your satisfaction!

logan2z · Dec 15, 2019

BrianShaw said:
I truly hope it works out to your satisfaction!

Thanks Brian!

abruzzi · Dec 15, 2019

logan2z said:
It wasn't KEH and I realize that they grade on appearance only.

while this it true, they warranty anything BGN and better. I recently bought a BGN Nikon F2, where the shutter didn’t open at all a 1/1000 and faster. I was trying to decide between returning it and paying for a CLA when the KEH rep told me they would fix it for free, which they did.

Jeremy Mudd · Dec 16, 2019

logan2z said:
It's not really about the money, I've bought lots of other money pits over the years (read: vintage Porsches ) and don't have any qualms about dumping money into something that gives me pleasure.

I have the same two money pits as hobbies - vintage Porsches and cameras! Sometimes I don't know which one is worse.

As others have stated, the light seal for the dark slide is a piece of cake to replace. Once you've done one its super easy to do again. I'd give it a 2 on the scale of 1-10 in terms of difficulty.

I've seen the overlap issue happen as a result of the film being loaded incorrectly where its OVER the little metal guide on the side instead of UNDER it. This can cause binding and sometimes mucks up the advancement of frames.

Contrary to what someone else stated, I've never had a problem with ACROS and have shot many many rolls of it in all sorts of cameras, including my 500C. Never a hiccup.

Good luck!

Sirius Glass · Dec 16, 2019

jawarden said:
This is not "excellent condition", no matter what the outside of the camera looks like. I'd give the seller a chance to make it right by replacing your film back with one that doesn't leak and try a roll again. "Excellent condition" should not mean "fixer-upper" or "useless until you service it". All of the cameras I've purchased from KEH labeled as excellent condition have been exactly that, functioning perfectly. Good luck!

Have the camera shop do a CLA and get the camera back in shape.

MattKing said:
Ask Sirius !
Depending on where you are in California, there may be someone nearby who does service Hasselblads, and would be willing to give you advice.
If it is just a problem with the seals, and the camera is in otherwise excellent condition, it may be better to seek a small price adjustment and have the seals replaced (a quick job).

The camera needs work and the back seems to have the problems.

The film back seals need to be replaced.
The negative spacing is off, but a CLA will take care of that.
The read indicator is not an exact indicator. It is measured with a block that presses against the unused film. It may show a little red when the film is loaded and it may show fully red before the roll is fully used. It is an indicator, trust the film counter.

Where are you in California? You can always contact me with a PM.

logan2z · Dec 16, 2019

Jeremy Mudd said:
I have the same two money pits as hobbies - vintage Porsches and cameras! Sometimes I don't know which one is worse.

As others have stated, the light seal for the dark slide is a piece of cake to replace. Once you've done one its super easy to do again. I'd give it a 2 on the scale of 1-10 in terms of difficulty.

I've seen the overlap issue happen as a result of the film being loaded incorrectly where its OVER the little metal guide on the side instead of UNDER it. This can cause binding and sometimes mucks up the advancement of frames.

Contrary to what someone else stated, I've never had a problem with ACROS and have shot many many rolls of it in all sorts of cameras, including my 500C. Never a hiccup.

Good luck!

I'd say that vintage Porsches are worse. I'd rather pay for ten camera CLAs than one engine rebuild

I'm pretty sure I had the film under the metal guide, but I'll definitely double check that the next time I load a roll.

logan2z · Dec 16, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
Have the camera shop do a CLA and get the camera back in shape.

The camera needs work and the back seems to have the problems.

The film back seals need to be replaced.

The negative spacing is off, but a CLA will take care of that.

The read indicator is not an exact indicator. It is measured with a block that presses against the unused film. It may show a little red when the film is loaded and it may show fully red before the roll is fully used. It is an indicator, trust the film counter.

Where are you in California? You can always contact me with a PM.

Thanks for the reply and the clarification about the film indicator. Good to know that it's not 100% accurate.

The selling shop was closed yesterday but hoping to hear back from them today to see what they say.

FYI, I'm in the SF Bay Area.

John Galt · Dec 16, 2019

Jeremy Mudd said:
I have the same two money pits as hobbies - vintage Porsches and cameras! Sometimes I don't know which one is worse.

Good luck!

I also have the same two hobbies . . but I also do all my own work on the Porsches . . . from full ground up restos to regular maintenence.

logan2z · Dec 16, 2019

John Galt said:
I also have the same two hobbies . . but I also do all my own work on the Porsches . . . from full ground up restos to regular maintenence.

I'm one post away from turning this into a 'Show your vintage Porsches' thread Maybe I'll start one in 'The Lounge'.

As far as doing my own car maintenance, given that I'm reluctant to embark on a light trap fix on my film back, you can probably figure out how much work I do on my own cars

logan2z · Dec 16, 2019

Somewhere in this thread I was asked which version of the A12 back I have and I didn't reply. It's this one, which appears to be from the '80s.

*Image borrowed from Ken Rockwell

BrianShaw · Dec 16, 2019

That back deserves new light seals!

BradS · Dec 16, 2019

logan2z said:
I'm one post away from turning this into a 'Show your vintage Porsches' thread Maybe I'll start one in 'The Lounge'.....

Oh, yes please! I don’t have any to show but will surely be watching.

GLS · Dec 17, 2019

Jeremy Mudd said:
Contrary to what someone else stated, I've never had a problem with ACROS and have shot many many rolls of it in all sorts of cameras, including my 500C. Never a hiccup.

This has been my experience too, but it goes for all Fuji films equally. I think the hole in the leader and the corresponding lug inside their reels really helps prevent any slippage which can lead to frame spacing issues in certain cameras. I wish all manufacturers used this system for 120.

warden · Dec 17, 2019

abruzzi said:
while this it true, they warranty anything BGN and better. I recently bought a BGN Nikon F2, where the shutter didn’t open at all a 1/1000 and faster. I was trying to decide between returning it and paying for a CLA when the KEH rep told me they would fix it for free, which they did.

That's why I purchase from KEH. Either the camera is as described or they will work with you to make it right. I have a friend that prefers to use Craigslist and eBay and the prices are certainly lower but he's been burned repeatedly too.

JWMster · Dec 17, 2019

Ditto on the good experience with KEH as a source and destination. Yes, they grade on cosmetics, but a purchase comes with a warranty period that if you test thoroughly should turn up the issues to be fixed, and pay for the fix. I've also had good experience with eBay + SquareTrade. I've had a completely fraudulent seller "fixed" by ebay/paypal as well with a full refund (Paypal actually is easier to deal with).

FWIW, I've found with acquisitions that some cameras are just fine from day one. Others, are cranky and better as back-ups or future dispositions where you take your lumps and move on. This is sometimes the cost of mistakes in dealing with old gear. CLA is worth doing if you have a basically good camera to begin with.

FWIW also: Cosmetics can tell you something about the handling of the camera. I like the phrase where you look for "use" as positive, but evidence that in the course of use, the camera wasn't abused. Where you can save money is on lenses. BECAUSE "condition" is generally visual, a great lens is under-rated. I had a number of Zeiss lenses carefully rebuilt by Zeiss recommended techs. While the $'s were well worth it and I got great pictures and use from them, changing systems meant I sold those off. SOMEONE else got a series of great buys. Cost of doing business.

Sirius Glass · Dec 17, 2019

Enjoy live, stick to buying at KEH or face to face at your local camera store. That is what I have done for years.

Grim Tuesday · Dec 17, 2019

I've never understood why this forum has such a big hard on for KEH when they are not the only or even the best big reputable camera store.

I've bought used equipment from them, Adorama, National Camera Exchange, and Roberts Photo/Used Photo Pro. National Camera is the best of the bunch, they grade better than KEH (they test functionality) but price much lower. And they have actual pictures of the items, something KEH somehow does not have. Roberts has pictures and accurate descriptions, and grade on functionality but are not as conservative with the grades as the rest. I'm usually happy with what I get from them because it's always accurately described. Adorama has extraordinarily good prices but the description is often lacking, there are no actual pictures. I find their grades very conservative and they test functionality as well. They are, however, much worse at packing things than the other three. It's usually worth taking a chance with them because they are so good with returns.

All in all, I've been more disappointed with stuff I've gotten from KEH than the other three because the condition assessment doesn't include functionality testing or actual pictures of the item. They were, however, very nice about offering me a free return.

BradS · Dec 17, 2019

Grim Tuesday said:
I've never understood why this forum has such a big hard on for KEH when they are not the only or even the best big reputable camera store.

I've bought used equipment from them, Adorama, National Camera Exchange, and Roberts Photo/Used Photo Pro. National Camera is the best of the bunch, they grade better than KEH (they test functionality) but price much lower. And they have actual pictures of the items, something KEH somehow does not have. Roberts has pictures and accurate descriptions, and grade on functionality but are not as conservative with the grades as the rest. I'm usually happy with what I get from them because it's always accurately described. Adorama has extraordinarily good prices but the description is often lacking, there are no actual pictures. I find their grades very conservative and they test functionality as well. They are, however, much worse at packing things than the other three. It's usually worth taking a chance with them because they are so good with returns.

All in all, I've been more disappointed with stuff I've gotten from KEH than the other three because the condition assessment doesn't include functionality testing or actual pictures of the item. They were, however, very nice about offering me a free return.

This sums up my experience and thoughts on the matter too...I loath KEH. I've not had one good experience buying a camera from them. I do not count the "you can send it back under warranty" as a bonus - a warranty is fine as long as I do not have to use it. It really sucks to play the quality control department for them....and it irritates me that they cannot be bothered to provide even a minimal description of the item offered let alone photos of the actual item offered. They suck large.

warden · Dec 17, 2019

Grim Tuesday said:
I've never understood why this forum has such a big hard on for KEH when they are not the only or even the best big reputable camera store.

I've bought used equipment from them, Adorama, National Camera Exchange, and Roberts Photo/Used Photo Pro. National Camera is the best of the bunch, they grade better than KEH (they test functionality) but price much lower. And they have actual pictures of the items, something KEH somehow does not have. Roberts has pictures and accurate descriptions, and grade on functionality but are not as conservative with the grades as the rest. I'm usually happy with what I get from them because it's always accurately described. Adorama has extraordinarily good prices but the description is often lacking, there are no actual pictures. I find their grades very conservative and they test functionality as well. They are, however, much worse at packing things than the other three. It's usually worth taking a chance with them because they are so good with returns.

All in all, I've been more disappointed with stuff I've gotten from KEH than the other three because the condition assessment doesn't include functionality testing or actual pictures of the item. They were, however, very nice about offering me a free return.

I had a good experience with Roberts too, who accepted a return for a badly functioning film back described as (you guessed it) excellent. So my hard on points in their direction too for prompt easy returns. Eew, camera hard-ons.

Jeremy Mudd · Dec 17, 2019

More Porsches. Less hard-ons.

logan2z · Dec 17, 2019

Jeremy Mudd said:
More Porsches. Less hard-ons.

If the car does it's thing, they're not mutually exclusive.

logan2z · Dec 17, 2019

Jeremy Mudd said:
More Porsches. Less hard-ons.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/show-your-vintage-porsches.171829/

Pieter12 · Dec 17, 2019

jawarden said:
I had a good experience with Roberts too, who accepted a return for a badly functioning film back described as (you guessed it) excellent. So my hard on points in their direction too for prompt easy returns. Eew, camera hard-ons.

Roberts was cooperative with me for an SWC that I purchased from them. It was jamming and I returned it to them for repair. They sent it back to me, but it still jammed. They said I could return it for a refund. I ended up taking the camera to a local repairman for an estimate and offered to split the repair cost with Roberts. They did.

I preferred doing that rather than taking a chance on another SWC. Hasselblads are complex mechanical cameras and as such, prone to failure. The good part is there are many technicians and seemingly enough parts to keep them going, unlike my Rolleiflex 6008. That camera is robust and more advanced but it has lots of electronics and micro motors and parts are hard to find any more, so when it goes, that's pretty much it.

First roll of film through my Hasselblad 500C/M - It didn't go well

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