First month with Mamiya C330

Helge · Sep 2, 2020

bluechromis said:
One advantage of the the Mamiya C series cameras is that they have a novel system of holding the film so that it stays very flat. In published tests of resolution of various lenses there often are concerns raised about the film flatness of a number of cameras including some prestigious ones. No matter how good the resolution of the lens if the film is not flat the IQ will be degraded.. The versatility of the C system is amazing.with many of the advantages of both TLR's and SLR's I have the prism, finder, the WLF and the chimney finder and use them for different purposes. For shooting fast paced action in street photography or events I can use the prism finder. I use this with the side grip and it makes all the difference. With the side grip my C330 f is nimble and with the auto-cocking shutter I can shoot fast. If you dislike WL finders with the image reversal you will like the prism. I use the WLF with the wide 55 mm lens and will stop it down and do zone focus for street photography. I look down at the finder only to frame the image, not focus, and fire away. For more slow paced scenes like landscape and still life I use the chimney finder. The 6X magnification allows accurate focus and avoids the problem of sun glare on WLF. I think the 80 mm and the DS 105 mm should be on the short list of best bokeh medium format lenses. Cameras with interchangeable film backs have flexibility. This can be approximated in C system by having multiple bodies with different kinds of film. Because they don't have lenses, additional bodies can be added at little cost which is not true with Rolleiflex..It is a bit more tricky to use polarizing and grad filters with TLR's but it can be done. On the plus side when using strong filters one does not have view through a dark filter which on SLR's may necessitate repeatedly taking the filter on and off. With all these advantages with C system plus it being affordable it has to be one of the best bang for the buck investments out there.

Interesting. Can you explain how it works or give a link to somewhere that explains it?

bluechromis · Sep 2, 2020

Bormental said:
Quick update:

I have added the Sekor 55mm f/4.5 lens, which I already shot two rolls of film with. It's sharp at all apertures and I have zero complaints about the image quality. Some say this lens likes to flare. It happened once, and what matters is that the rest of the image hasn't suffered a dramatic contrast loss. Overall, the camera continues to be a delight to use. And it's is by far the easiest to take photos of strangers with. Many do not realize that a photo taking is taking place, others get excited. Overall the reaction is far more positive compared to a big SLR or even a 35mm rangefinder. I even started to use the "sports finder"! It works really well with the 80mm lens.

My only complaint is that dust and dirt keeps piling up in the viewfinder chamber, I guess it's common for all TLRs when used on the street. I also got too cocky with the "sunny 16" lately and underexposed a lot of shots on my last two rolls...

I am closing my "review". The conclusion is that for someone like me, coming from primarily Canon EOS background with a nice collection of "L-glass", there's nothing obsolete about the Mamiya TLR system. The glass is superb, the lack of a meter is not very limiting*, the shooting experience is refreshing and the build quality is out of this world.

* I did order a Gossen light meter though.

HP5+
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Bergger Pancro 400
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Sometimes people will claim that the C systems lenses are not sharp enough. The picture of the motorcycle shows otherwise. Thanks for your review.

Bormental · Sep 2, 2020

bluechromis said:
For shooting fast paced action in street photography or events I can use the prism finder.

Have you tried using the "sports finder" feature? I have and found it surprisingly useful. I did a series of photos standing behind a soccer goalie trying to get a shot of a ball hitting the corner. Unfortunately the other team wasn't very good, but I did OK on a couple of opportunities that presented themselves and I couldn't possibly see where the ball was going with any other type of viewfinder.

MattKing · Sep 2, 2020

Helge said:
Interesting. Can you explain how it works or give a link to somewhere that explains it?

They use a very straight film path, relatively long film rails and a relatively large, firmly sprung pressure plate.

Helge · Sep 2, 2020

MattKing said:
They use a very straight film path, relatively long film rails and a relatively large, firmly sprung pressure plate.

Oh that? My Ikonta does that too. ;-)

bluechromis · Sep 2, 2020

Bormental said:
Have you tried using the "sports finder" feature? I have and found it surprisingly useful. I did a series of photos standing behind a soccer goalie trying to get a shot of a ball hitting the corner. Unfortunately the other team wasn't very good, but I did OK on a couple of opportunities that presented themselves and I couldn't possibly see where the ball was going with any other type of viewfinder.

Thanks for the tip I should try the sports finder more. Honestly the reason I don't use the sports finder more is for social reasons. I like to do candid street photography which has become increasing difficult because people are wary of having their picture taken. I find the minute I raise a camera to my eye people act as though a gun is pointing at them. But when use the WLF they are less anxious perhaps because they realize one can take a picture that. way.

Bormental · Sep 2, 2020

It drives me nuts. When you raise your iPhone to your eye (obviously taking a photo) - everyone's OK. But if that's a camera, suddenly "I did not appreciate being in your photo, mister". Seriously, nothing beats a phone for candid photography. It's practically invisible. But it's just not fun.

NB23 · Sep 2, 2020

Bormental said:
It drives me nuts. When you raise your iPhone to your eye (obviously taking a photo) - everyone's OK. But if that's a camera, suddenly "I did not appreciate being in your photo, mister". Seriously, nothing beats a phone for candid photography. It's practically invisible. But it's just not fun.

When someone tells me I took a photo of them, and they usually go out of their way to let me know, I tell them this: “before we go any further with this stupid subject, I hope you realize that we are actually being filmed by at least 5 hidden video cameras surrounding us.”

And if they insist, I tell them that before continuing, I want to film the conversation with my iphone.

markjwyatt · Sep 2, 2020

Bormental said:
...I just bought a 55mm from another photrio member, and if I ever add the 3rd lens it will probably be 135mm.

The 55mm is one of my favorite lenses for the C-series. I just happened to buy a 135mm from a Photrio member recently and really like it. I have the 180mm and love it too, but sometimes it feels too long.

Bormental · Sep 2, 2020

NB23 said:
When someone tells me I took a photo of them, and they usually go out of their way to let me know, I tell them this: “before we go any further with this stupid subject, I hope you realize that we are actually being filmed by at least 5 hidden video cameras surrounding us.”

And if they insist, I tell them that before continuing, I want to film the conversation with my iphone.

Wow... I wonder where you live. I have never encountered anyone confrontational like that. But maybe I need to push my boundaries!

pentaxuser · Sep 2, 2020

Doesn't the last 4 posts tell us that in effect people are stupid. I blame the educationalists who have had at least 10 years to teach people how to think but still seem to have had less than a satisfactory success rate in this field.

On the other hand it might be that "the commies are poisoning the water" as General Jack D Ripper said and we continue to drink from this poisoned source. I'd say the poisoning is getting more severe with little sign of this downward trend being altered

pentaxuser

markjwyatt · Sep 2, 2020

The iPhone definitely is the most effective street camera. No one bats an eye. But as Bormental says, it is just not as fun.

Someone mentioned using the WLF as a bit more discreet, because you can have the camera hanging down and not as noticed. You can also stick the camera out around a corner. They are also useful for getting above a crowd. Modern articulating LCDs can do some of this also.

Bormental · Sep 2, 2020

I have had success tethering a digital camera to my phone. This way you're framing on the phone, while the camera is in your other hand and everyone thinks you're just on facebook like everyone else. The results are spectacular (you can stick your camera up to everyone's face and they don't care) but the process, again, is dull and annoying, because you're still taking a photo with a phone just via camera's lens. Also, this is probably way offtopic for this forum.

Back to Mamiya C330: between my other MF cameras I think this one is the most enjoyable for street photography. Waist-level finder does not alert people, and when they notice everyone wants to pose for a cool-looking retro camera. Put it on a tripod and you get the opposite problem: everyone wants a photo

M645, on the other hand, is the worst. It looks just like a big and intimidating DSLR and twice as loud.

PonySoldier1887 · Sep 2, 2020

I have been using Mamiya C Series TLRs since the early seventies and I would not want to be without one. I prefer the waist-level finder (with the newer folding hood which blocks stray light quite effectively) and either the 80mm or 105mm DS lenses. The camera does require some time to really get acquainted but this is pretty well true of most mechanical devices. For my purposes, if I am just out wandering around, the C330, 80mm f2.8, and an incident light meter works perfectly!

Bormental · Sep 2, 2020

markjwyatt said:
The 55mm is one of my favorite lenses for the C-series.

I definitely prefer the FOV of it compared to 80mm or 105mm, the only other lenses I had access to. However, the flare and contrast loss are not fun. I bought the original Mamiya metal hood for 55mm lens and, while bulky, (and expensive!) it does not seem to help much. I never cared about flare with any lens before, in fact I love the artifacts. But this one is on another level - I can see the lens groups in my photos! My understanding is that this lens is firmly in the retro category of optical coatings. It even lacks the usual rainbow-colored front element reflections.

And despite that, the 55mm still gets about 75% of film traffic that goes through my c330.

bluechromis · Sep 3, 2020

I mentioned many positive things about the Mamiya system, in honesty I mention some drawbacks. For one the lens coattings are OK, but not stellar.. The ergonomics of the lens adjustments are not ideal. You have to go front the camera to make adjustments and the shutter speed dial has not lip on or way to easily adjust it.

In talking about the weight of it I'm trying to think about how to talk about that. On one level it's about the weight compared to something else. One of my other cameras is Pentax 6 x 7 and it seems light compared to that. But compared to other TLR's and 35 mm cameras it seems heavy. One could recommend to go to and store and hold one to see if feels too heavy. But that is isolation doesn't mean much. Usually there is a trade-off between size/weight and capability. I haver a Rollei 35 mm camera that is unbelievably small with a sharp lens. Oh, but it has a scale focus and makes a 35 mm negative. For that matter people have cell phones that take pictures and are small and light. But when I use larger format, despite the effort required, I wind up with these big, gorgeous negatives that do I can so much with, to crop,, to print big. So I think that I pay the price up front to carry a big camera and reap the benefits later in making the print/ images. There are pictures of Diane Arbus, a small woman, lugging around a big Mamiya C camera. Why? Because knew that the trade off in terms of the images she would get were worth it. So you to think about your work flow and what is the desired result you and what trade off's are worth it. For me when I saw on the light table the gorgeous big medium format negatives and especially when I went to print to them and I could so much with them that it it made me think that I would willingly walk 25 miles though the desert to get that. If one doesn't ever have that experience maybe there is no reason to use a TLR or any medium format camera.

PFGS · Sep 3, 2020

bluechromis said:
But when use the WLF they are less anxious perhaps because they realize one can take a picture that. way.

I'm convinced the WLF works because I'm disarming them with the sight of my incipient bald spot.

PFGS · Sep 3, 2020

Bormental said:
A couple of shots from the first roll:

Been trying to find a non-fawning way to say this, and I know a lot of it is the light and the technique skill of the photographer, but - I didn't know HP5+ could look like this. I haven't touched it in ages because I always found it too grainy and kind of flat, but this and the motorcycle shot have me thinking I need to revisit (and use proper exposure and development this time)

I'd also be interested in your Xtol replenishment process, if you are willing to share the details - I have a bag sitting around that I should mix up.

Bormental · Sep 3, 2020

PFGS said:
I'd also be interested in your Xtol replenishment process, if you are willing to share the details - I have a bag sitting around that I should mix up.

Thank you, PFGS. I have shared my Xtol-R experience in this thread:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/quick-seasoning-of-replenished-xtol.176433/ and I can only add that I replenish at a rate of 80ml per 120 roll, not 70ml as Kodak says.

Replenishing XTol has given a slight boost to the quality of my images, thanks to @MattKing and others who've patiently answered my questions when I was getting into it.

First month with Mamiya C330

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