First Large Format (Ignorance and Expense)

[Alan Edward Klein]

Alan...... just for the sake of clarity, a close-up outside.....is not a landscape photo it is a close-up. Yes a 150 is a good lens for close-ups of that type of photo. Working distance to the subject is important. If you think of it in 35mm terms...the most common focusing 'macro lenses' are similar to 'normal lenses'.... 50,55mm. Yes there were short tele versions 100/105mm. but most common are the normal length. In LF a 150 will be easy to work with & give you good results.
BTW "foreshortening"

I'm using the free version of speelcheck. Thnaks.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

With a bellows extension of 300mm and a 150mm lens you can photograph subjects with a magnification of M=1 (life size).

A good way to think of it when you choose composition is: would this flower (or any subject) fit directly on a sheet of 4x5 film.

Your 350mm bellows will give you a magnification of at most M=1.33 with a 150mm lens.

In that case, you should put that on the camera, put the camera 1200 mm (~ 4 feet) from a subject and focus.
Now take a look at what is in the frame - what the size of the frame is, from edge to edge, corner to corner. Say it is 20"x16", or whatever.
If you photograph anything smaller than that size (20"x16" or whatever) that fills the negative, you know that you will need to adjust the exposure.
The most important thing is to become visually familiar with that size of subject frame.

Thanks, I'll try it out see what it looks like using a couple of my lenses.

 

[MattKing]

Thanks, I'll try it out see what it looks like using a couple of my lenses.

It will be exactly the same size subject frame, no matter the lens. The only thing that will change with the lens is the subject to camera distance, and therefore the perspective.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

It will be exactly the same size subject frame, no matter the lens. The only thing that will change with the lens is the subject to camera distance, and therefore the perspective.

Yes I get that. But the wider angle lens should give me more magnification because I have more bellow's draw. Right?

 

[wiltw]

But the wider angle lens should give me more magnification because I have more bellow's draw. Right?

Shooting with 4x5

• 150mm lens at 10' will see 6.4' x 8' in the frame
• 75mm lens at 5' will see 6.4' x 8' in the frame
• 58mm lens at 3.85' will see 6.4 x 8' in the frame

Bellows draw limitations will have zero applicability at those shooting distances!...that only matters at 'macro' magnifications, and I fail to see how 'macro' comes into play for any definition of 'landscape close up'...6.4' tall area captured within a 4" tall frame is only about 1/20 of actual size!

 

[FotoD]

But my closer shots are going to be landscape shooting? not portraits but let's say flowers or something outdoors. So I'm thinking that the 150 mm would be a good choice for me since I don't have a 210. And the 300 is too long because my bellows will only extend to 350 mm.

Bellows draw limitations will have zero applicability at those shooting distances!...that only matters at 'macro' magnifications, and I fail to see how 'macro' comes into play for any definition of 'landscape close up'...6.4' tall area captured within a 4" tall frame is only about 1/20 of actual size!

It comes into play for *all* scenes at and around a magnification of 1:1.

Please tell us how you would fill the 4x5 negative with a 5" tall flower using Alans 300mm lens and 350mm bellows, since bellows draw is no limitation to you.

 

[wiltw]

It comes into play for *all* scenes at and around a magnification of 1:1.

Please tell us how you would fill the 4x5 negative with a 5" tall flower using Alans 300mm lens and 350mm bellows, since bellows draw is no limitation to you.

A 1:1 is 'macro', and hardly a 'landscape' in most understanding, ergo the questions of what is meant by 'close landscape'!
If the suubject is 1:10 ( 1/10 of life size) the exposure compensation due to bellows draw is less than 1/4EV

 

[John Patrick Garriga]

Do y'all know of a good system for storing undeveloped exposed film? (Is it even considered a negative if you haven't developed it yet?). So far I have one double film holder and I plan on taking more than two images. Unfortunately I won't be able to get the images developed until probably sometime in January. Any recommendations on how I should store them until I can get them developed?

 

[AnselMortensen]

Usually unprocessed film is stored in an old empty 3-part film box.
If you don't have an extra one, post a WTB ad in the classifieds here.
After you burn through a few boxes of film, you'll have extras.
An old, empty 8x10 photo paper box can sometimes do, in a pinch, if you put the film in the black plastic bag first.

 

[MattKing]

Whatever you do, mark the storage container really, really clearly!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If you can't get empty film boxes until you use some, try these lightproof plastic film bags.

Paper Safe-T Bags

Darkroom and Studio set up and supplies

deltaphotosupplies.com

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I send my film out to labs to develop and tell them to return the empty film boxes to me.

 

[wiltw]

If you lack an empty 4x5 film box, you can...

1. double a sheet of aluminum foil, into a double-thickness base
2. fold the double-thickness base to form an 'envelope' into which you place exposed film
3. fold up the the 3 open sides of the 'envelope', then again fold the three edge folds, forming a light baffle that prevents entry of light
4. put the 'envelope' inside something that is somewhat light tight, giving it protection from the foil tearing.

While I was shooting professionally, I might find myself short of a 4x5 box to take film to a pro lab for processing...I would do the above, to give the lab the film, and not have to worry about getting the box back when picking up the processed film.

 

[Vaughn]

Do y'all know of a good system for storing undeveloped exposed film? (Is it even considered a negative if you haven't developed it yet?). So far I have one double film holder and I plan on taking more than two images. Unfortunately I won't be able to get the images developed until probably sometime in January. Any recommendations on how I should store them until I can get them developed?

It can be dangerous...my film comes between two pieces of cardboard inside the black plastic bag...and in a pinch I have reloaded holders by putting the exposed film (not negatives yet!) between one of the pieces of cardboard and the bag, knowing the unexposed is in between the two pieces of cardboard. I have also used a couple plastic bags from photo paper and a photopaper box as temporary storage.

My preference is going straight from the holders into my developing drums...the less handling the better...but not always possible. On very long trips I would have several old film boxes to unload into, separating the exposed film by type and/or development needs.

 

[DREW WILEY]

First of all, buy more film holders. After that, you might think of a little film changing tent or changing bag. The exposed film is put inside a regular 3-part film box, properly labeled so that you don't confuse it with fresh film.

 

[John Patrick Garriga]

First of all, buy more film holders. After that, you might think of a little film changing tent or changing bag. The exposed film is put inside a regular 3-part film box, properly labeled so that you don't confuse it with fresh film.

I meant to order more, thought I was ordering two but the package only came with one. Will plan on getting more ASAP. Want at least 10 lying around for longer trips.

 

[otto.f]

I'd get a small tape measure for bellows calculations, a notebook (and a small calculator if you don't use your phone).

That’s a good one. I wonder why LF camera makers don’t do that standard

 

[tih]

And then there's this, for getting the bellows draw compensation without calculating anything: http://www.salzgeber.at/disc/

 

[RalphLambrecht]

As I was telling xkaes, I'm planning on doing landscape photography. Been a big fan of Ansel Adams' work since I started, so I do plan on learning the zone system. I'll skip the loupe for now, if I find I need anything I guess I'll get a magnifying glass and see how that works.

As mentioned above, strong, reading glasses, a reasonable replacement for a loupe.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

And then there's this, for getting the bellows draw compensation without calculating anything: http://www.salzgeber.at/disc/

Thanks.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Various easy to use bellows extension aids have been marketed in the past. Calumet had an excellent one which was small and didn't require any math or any tape rule, and would work with ANY lens. I don't know if they ever turn up used or not. A previous post by tih links an analogous product.

 

[John Patrick Garriga]

So, what prevents one from taking your light meter and sticking it behind the ground glass? Seems like that'd give you an accurate reading, right? You'd have to make sure that your meter is pointing exactly where you want it, be a little more precise with where you aim but I don't see many reasons why that wouldn't work.

 

[Donald Qualls]

You'd also have to test against direct reading at various positions on the ground glass to work out a table of compensation factors. The ground glass isn't the same brightness as the scene, varies with the aperture of the lens, and if the lens is even as wide as a "normal" focal length, there will be significant brightness difference from the center to the corners.

Not to say it can't be done; TTL and off-the-film metering in sophisticated 35 mm and medium format cameras -- like the metered chimney viewfinder for my RB67 -- does essentially this (as modified in the latter case with a reflection factor for the film emulsion) -- but it's generally easier to meter the scene, either incident (to get an average that will automatically make highlights light and shadows dark) or spot metering to place important shadow values correctly (2-3 stops below metered value to get them on Zones III or II).

 

[John Patrick Garriga]

And, correct me if I'm wrong here, I don't have to worry about bellows extension factor unless I'm doing macro photography, right? I may do a full body portrait on occasion but as far as I know, that's still far enough away I don't have to worry about light dropoff.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The rule of thumb that came up in another thread last week is that as long as you're 10x the lens focal length from your subject, bellows extension won't affect exposure enough to notice even on slide film. For portraits with normal or wider lenses, you may need 1/3 stop -- which is negligible for almost any B&W or color negative film.