First Large Format (Ignorance and Expense)

DREW WILEY · Dec 15, 2022

Green and red in nature notoriously deceptive. Green foliage also reflects a lot of yellow, red, and even IR light. It's just disguised by the greater amount of green, and once all that chlorophyll is lost in autumn, you finally see those secondary colors. Some brilliant oranges and yellows in nature, like fluorescent algal hues, are almost impossible for film to capture decently. Insects and other pollinators see all kinds of things we don't, and that's what flowers are engineered for, not our color film choices.

Vaughn · Dec 15, 2022

John Patrick Garriga said:
I may only use this rarely in that case. I'd mostly be wanting something that's not as reactive to blue. I want to have my skies darker and this seems like it'd give the opposite effect.

Yeah...sometimes I can't get rid of the sky. When that happens I prefer them on the lighter side. I use a yellow filter with traditional films, but I found the filter way too strong using TMax100.

Here's me not wanting sky so much I put a big rock behind the tree.

5.5"x14" platinum/palladium print (FP4+ in PyrocatHD)

abruzzi · Dec 15, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Various easy to use bellows extension aids have been marketed in the past. Calumet had an excellent one which was small and didn't require any math or any tape rule, and would work with ANY lens. I don't know if they ever turn up used or not. A previous post by tih links an analogous product.

thanks for mentioning this. I googed it and KEH had one, so I bought it. There are a few on eBay, but shipping is a little steep for what it is. They are actually stupidly simple--a little square you put in the scene at the focus point, then a ruler you put on the ground glass to measure the size there, but rather than measuring inches, you're measuring stops of compensation. It would aslo be pretty easy to make one yourself, or just print it out from this page--just make sure the printout of the square is appropriately sized (the same as 100% on the bottom or 2 stops on the top.):

Calumet Exposure Calculator

since: 2018/09/30 update: 2018/09/30 reference : 1. film photographers handbook: Adventures in Large Format -----------------------...

pathtoeternal.blogspot.com

Donald Qualls · Dec 16, 2022

abruzzi said:
a little square you put in the scene at the focus point, then a ruler you put on the ground glass to measure the size there, but rather than measuring inches, you're measuring stops of compensation.

Of course, this doesn't work well for distant subjects, but fortunately that's when you don't need any compensation. Is the square small enough to fit in view when shooting "larger than life" macro?

FotoD · Dec 16, 2022

It seems to be made for up to 2.5:1. But I can't tell if it will fit on a 4x5 at that magnification or if it takes a larger ground glass.

It's a handy device if you only photograph ridgid subjects or at lower magnifications with plenty of room around the subject.

But if you photograph anything that will move when the card touches it, like a flower covering the entire frame, it's quite useless. You'd have to recompose and refocus the scene after each time you bump into the subject.

When all you have do is tape measure the bellows and do the simple math. That works for all subjects at all magnifications.

Donald Qualls · Dec 16, 2022

FotoD said:
the simple math.

And any of several programmable calculator emulation apps for smart phones (like the HP41CV app I use) will allow creating a program that just needs the inputs of infinity draw and current draw to ouput the compensation (in 1/3 stop increments, if you like).

DREW WILEY · Dec 16, 2022

I've never had an issue with the little plastic Calumet Calculator with flowers unless there's blowing wind, which makes view camera photography of such things difficult anyway. After awhile, you just get instinctive about this with certain camera/lens combinations. No big deal. In studio there is option of film plane meters for view camera. But I don't like anything dependent on batteries in the field other than my spotmeter. The simpler the better, when it comes to ease and reliability.

John Patrick Garriga · Dec 16, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
…But I don't like anything dependent on batteries in the field other than my spotmeter. The simpler the better, when it comes to ease and reliability.

My philosophy exactly. Batteries have a habit of blowing up, swelling, leaking, generally not working if they’re not in perfect conditions. Even moreso with digital tech. I don’t even like bringing butane canisters out when I go camping or hiking. I’d rather bring a ferro rod because at that point it depends more on my own ability to make fire than the dependability of the canister.

DREW WILEY · Dec 16, 2022

I follow ya ... but canisters are legally required above timberline to prevent depletion of what little wood remains there. And below timberline, little fires tend to become catastrophic forest fires these days. Times have changed. I have a couple of aboriginal fire starting kits. They'd take along a little cobble of soapstone, which retains heat exceptionally well, and use their bow to generate friction in that with a wooden shaft. Rubbing sticks together doesn't work too well. I sure found that out the hard way.

Donald Qualls · Dec 16, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Rubbing sticks together doesn't work too well.

I'm pretty sure I know ten different ways to make a friction fire, and the only one that amounts to "rubbing sticks together" is the fire plow, one of the most reliable for when you have nothing dry but your tinder itself (if even that).

Fire rolls are the best, though. Cotton balls rolled up with dry silt or ash inside, just roll them between firm, flat surfaces with some pressure and they'll start to smolder in literally seconds. If it's windy, they're faster than matches.

Regardless, I like to minimize battery dependence for my photography, too. My rule is nothing that needs the battery to operate (meters are fine, but I want all shutter speeds and apertures if I haven't seen a battery in months). Yes, my spotmeter needs a battery -- but I can expose correctly in most outdoor light without a meter, at worst two or three frame bracket.

DREW WILEY · Dec 16, 2022

Well I grew up with Indians, and even knew a few very old ones who had themselves grown up totally aboriginal, crossing the high passes barefoot, and with at most a rabbit-skin blanket for warmth at night. I was also fascinated with Pleistocene archeology, and experimented at living the same way in the mountains for at least a few days at a time, carrying a spear and atlatl. Got so hungry once that when I ran into a meadow once filled with wild onions, I chomped the bulbs and darn near melted down from the inside. My stomach doesn't handle spicy Mex Tex food, even from the Pleistocene. Learned all about starting fires too. The main rule I broke was carrying my beloved little Pentax H1 along; I don't think they had those then yet in 12,000 BC, maybe just Box Brownies.

MattKing · Dec 16, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
My stomach doesn't handle spicy Mex Tex food, even from the Pleistocene.

I bet the OP didn't expect this sort of dietary advice when this thread was started

DREW WILEY · Dec 16, 2022

Not as sick a feeling as when I got back from ten days of high off-trail travel with a heavy pack and the lab threw my chrome film into the C41 soup by mistake instead.

faberryman · Dec 16, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Well I grew up with Indians, and even knew a few very old ones who had themselves grown up totally aboriginal, crossing the high passes barefoot, and with at most a rabbit-skin blanket for warmth at night.

Where were they going and why?

Sharktooth · Dec 16, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Not as sick a feeling as when I got back from ten days of high off-trail travel with a heavy pack and the lab threw my chrome film into the C41 soup by mistake instead.

I'll bet you were cross at the processor, and voiced a few negative comments in some rather chromatic language.

DREW WILEY · Dec 16, 2022

No. I let it slide, and don't even know who made the error. The owner became a long-term friend, as as certain portion of his business gradually wound down, he gave me some really serious lab equipment. But I never trusted them with my film processing again. There were other local options.

Sharktooth · Dec 16, 2022

A dark day indeed, but a brightly replenished future.

John Patrick Garriga · Dec 17, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Not as sick a feeling as when I got back from ten days of high off-trail travel with a heavy pack and the lab threw my chrome film into the C41 soup by mistake instead.

I think I just threw up a little...

John Patrick Garriga · Dec 17, 2022

MattKing said:
I bet the OP didn't expect this sort of dietary advice when this thread was started

Hey, I love spicy food. Jalapeños taste like soap, though. Won a couple spicy food contests. Habaneros are pretty good. They taste a little like blueberries to me. Ghost peppers are just horrible, though. They're a bit like burnt toast.

John Patrick Garriga · Dec 17, 2022

Does anyone know of a good Red-50 filter? I've seen a couple advertised online but they seem lighter than the Red-25's. I love a pitch-black sky. Also, how do I know what filter mount I need to get for my Schneider? I know someone who has a 3D printer, should I just see about getting him to make me one? I'm not sure if I should get a filter that goes in front of or behind the lens quite yet, either.

abruzzi · Dec 17, 2022

If you have the lens there are ways to measure it. I’d suggest a trip to the local Harbor Freight and buying the cheapest $10 digital calipers. You can measure the inside of the thread and figure from there the likely diameter. Thread pitch also needs to be correct, but they tend to be standard for a particular size.

EDIT: https://skgrimes.com/services/how-to-measure-threads/

Sirius Glass · Dec 17, 2022

John Patrick Garriga said:
Does anyone know of a good Red-50 filter? I've seen a couple advertised online but they seem lighter than the Red-25's. I love a pitch-black sky. Also, how do I know what filter mount I need to get for my Schneider? I know someone who has a 3D printer, should I just see about getting him to make me one? I'm not sure if I should get a filter that goes in front of or behind the lens quite yet, either.

Red 25 and Red 29 will give black skies.

DREW WILEY · Dec 18, 2022

29 is deeper than a 25. Deeper than that, and you're getting into Infrared film filters. None of the above will necessarily give you black skies. Depends on just how deep blue the sky itself is, the actual response of your pan film, and your degree of development of both film and paper.

Thread size? - just look up the Schneider spec sheet or brochure for that line of lenses. Cheapo calipers are a recipe for trouble.

abruzzi · Dec 18, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Thread size? - just look up the Schneider spec sheet or brochure for that line of lenses. Cheapo calipers are a recipe for trouble.

OTOH, relying on a spec sheet for a lens that has been manufactured for 30 years in different forms is also a recipie for trouble. I've had several lenses that don't match the spec sheet.

xkaes · Dec 18, 2022

If you don't have a simple ruler lying around somewhere -- you're in real trouble.

First Large Format (Ignorance and Expense)

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