First ever enlargements - red and brown problem

Mike Chalmers · Oct 22, 2019

Hey folks,

I finally got my act together to make my first ever home prints (after helpful advice here) and they have turned out reddish brown, despite me using different filter settings on the two I made.

I'll post the two images to show they are doing the same thing then explain my process.

Testing exposure. I think the greenish streaks are from me incorrectly using the CPE2 tanks.. f11 @ 2sec-increments. filter: 70Y 50M 00C.

Dunno what the marks are, any thoughts for a newbie? f11 @ 6sec. filter: 0Y 0M 0C

So, as you can see, the filters seemed to do nothing. I use Durst 670 Colour > Fuji paper Crystal Archive Paper > Kodak Ektacolor RA4 > JOBO CPE2. 1min DEV, 1min BLIX.

- First time I've used this enlarger, bought second-hand.

- Made the chemicals up a few weeks ago (meant to use earlier but not had time) so not super fresh, but not sure it would cause this.

- Paper is cut pieces I had from my darkroom course a couple years back, kept in a light-sealed bag.

Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks, M

Martin Rickards · Oct 22, 2019

Hard to tell on a computer, but it looks like you could try reducing magenta considerably, say by up to 40.

Mike Chalmers · Oct 22, 2019

Martin Rickards said:
Hard to tell on a computer, but it looks like you could try reducing magenta considerably, say by up to 40.

Did you look at first image for comparison? The colours look the same and Magenta reduced from 50 to 0 (as well as Yellow from 70 to 0) as per notes above. Seems not to have had an effect.

EDIT: I've edited the original post to properly show both now.

pentaxuser · Oct 22, 2019

Mike Chalmers said:
Did you look at first image for comparison? The colours look the same and Magenta reduced from 50 to 0 (as well as Yellow from 70 to 0) as per notes above. Seems not to have had an effect.

EDIT: I've edited the original post to properly show both now.

I agree I can see no difference either. Based on this the only conclusion I can draw is that your dichroic head filters are not working i.e. the dials are not operating the filters. An easy way to check. Shine the enlarger lamp through an empty neg carrier with everything at 0 then dial in yellow only and see if there is a change in colour on the easel and does it get stronger. Return the Y to 0 and do the same with M and then C

Let us know what happens when you do this

pentaxuser

Mike Chalmers · Oct 22, 2019

pentaxuser said:
I agree I can see no difference either. Based on this the only conclusion I can draw is that your dichroic head filters are not working i.e. the dials are not operating the filters. An easy way to check. Shine the enlarger lamp through an empty neg carrier with everything at 0 then dial in yellow only and see if there is a change in colour on the easel and does it get stronger. Return the Y to 0 and do the same with M and then C

Thanks pentaxuser, here are my results:

Y - no change from 0 at all

M - clear change from 0 to 5 (went more magenta), no change above that (so it sorta seems like an on/off or binary state, I don't know if this is wrong)

C - clear change from 0 to 5 (went more cyan), again no change beyond 5

All the best,

Mike Chalmers · Oct 22, 2019

Oh man, I just found out about swinging the filters out of the way as: https://photo.stackexchange.com/a/99694

@pentaxuser - thank you, I wouldn't have figured this out without your comment.

I'll try another test shortly and see how it goes.

pentaxuser · Oct 22, 2019

Mike, what's the range of units your dials cover. For instance my Durst is 0-130 for all three so no change after 5 would indicate that my dials were making no change after just a tiny amount of whatever the colour is.

I think it safe to say that the colour filters are not working or as good as not working. This may or may not be something that you can fix.

Do you have an instruction manual and does this allow you to dismantle it enough to see inside to see what is going on

Anyone here have experience of dichroic heads on a Durst 670 in terms of filters?

pentaxuser

Mike Chalmers · Oct 22, 2019

pentaxuser said:
I think it safe to say that the colour filters are not working or as good as not working. This may or may not be something that you can fix.

@pentaxuser - see my previous post, I've made some progress

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 22, 2019

Start of with a a filter pack of 50Y+50M with a test strip. Don't increase the time to increase the test for density. Use the f stop on your enlarger lens. RA4 has characteristics when you increase the time, the color will shift.

pentaxuser · Oct 22, 2019

Mike Chalmers said:
@pentaxuser - see my previous post, I've made some progress

Yes I wasn't really sure why finding the white light lever was important but as you used the word progress I think you mean that the filters were not working becuase the white light lever was still swing in its position where all the filters are out of the way. Doesn't really explain why up to 5 worked in M and C though or maybe you only thought that some C and M were showing. The white light lever should remove all filtration I'd have thought

Mainecoonmaniac's suggestion on starting filtration is a very useful starting point. Greg Davies' videos on RA4 printing are worth a look as well, assuming of course that the filters are now in fact working

pentaxuser

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 22, 2019

pentaxuser said:
Yes I wasn't really sure why finding the white light lever was important
pentaxuser

The white light lever is important. I missed that. I've left my white light on with my Beseler 45S dichroic head and had the same problem.. It's great for focusing you image, but if you're forgetful like me, it will happen.

Mike Chalmers · Oct 22, 2019

Test successful, much better colours, so glad!

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Start of with a a filter pack of 50Y+50M with a test strip. Don't increase the time to increase the test for density. Use the f stop on your enlarger lens. RA4 has characteristics when you increase the time, the color will shift.

Good point, need to work on this lot more.

pentaxuser said:
Doesn't really explain why up to 5 worked in M and C though or maybe you only thought that some C and M were showing

I know it shouldn't affect the light if they're out of the way, but they definitely did, but nowhere near the amount with the filters actually on.

pentaxuser said:
Greg Davies' videos on RA4 printing are worth a look as well

Thanks - had a quick look and can't find these, can you point me in the right direction?

Cheers guys, thanks for you swift help that allowed me to keep testing and figure it out in one session

pentaxuser · Oct 22, 2019

Sorry It is Greg Davis and not as I spelt it Davies. He presented a series of videos on darkroom work here on Photrio The RA4 printing was in 3 parts. Most of of it may be redundant for you as you already have the set-up but the part where he describes colour cast correction might be relevant

pentaxuser

pentaxuser · Oct 22, 2019

Mike, even I had difficulty finding the thread. I don't really use the Photrio search facility and I now know why. To say it is not user friendly is an understatement. Try using his name of Greg Davis in the search box. It should come up and you can then move to his profile where there is section on his posts. Fortunately in recent times his posts have been about his videos so a short scroll down these will get you to the right thread

pentaxuser

MattKing · Oct 22, 2019

Click on the "Resources" tab at the top of the screen. The most recent Resources will show first, and Greg's links are right there.

mshchem · Oct 22, 2019

Don't get discouraged. Once you get everything in order, as long as you use the same film and paper, filtration doesn't change much. Once you get it RA4 is faster than an inkjet.

pentaxuser · Oct 22, 2019

Thanks Matt. So in this case a video is classified as a resource. Makes sense

pentaxuser

MattKing · Oct 22, 2019

pentaxuser said:
Thanks Matt. So in this case a video is classified as a resource. Makes sense

pentaxuser

It isn't that videos are a resource.
It is that Greg Davis chose to load those videos to the Resource section of Photrio.
Just as others have loaded non-video, How To articles to the Resource section of Photrio.

CMoore · Oct 27, 2019

Greg Davis said:
You can also search my channel direct on YouTube under “Naked Photographer”

Is there a Brief/Humorous back-story as to how you chose your pseudonym.?
Thank You

CMoore · Oct 27, 2019

Greg Davis said:
Alcohol

wyofilm · Oct 27, 2019

Greg Davis said:
I wanted my channel to be more comprehensive than most others I see, which seem to focus more on just digital or just walking around with a camera, etc.. I also wanted a name that was memorable. While sharing a few drinks with another photo professor I came up with Naked Photographer. You don’t easily forget it and it carried the notion that I’m not hiding anything I know about the subject.

Your channel is great, but please, please remember you don't need to show us everything.

Mike Chalmers · Oct 27, 2019

pentaxuser said:
He presented a series of videos on darkroom work here on Photrio The RA4 printing was in 3 parts. Most of of it may be redundant for you as you already have the set-up but the part where he describes colour cast correction might be relevant

Fab, thanks. I was working on other things this week and had to take down my darkroom (tinfoil on large window) but my blackout material has arrived so I can set up quicker now.

MattKing said:
Click on the "Resources" tab at the top of the screen. The most recent Resources will show first, and Greg's links are right there.

Nice one, found them.

mshchem said:
Don't get discouraged. Once you get everything in order, as long as you use the same film and paper, filtration doesn't change much. Once you get it RA4 is faster than an inkjet.

Yeah I'm looking forward to getting it right and I won't stop until I do - although I might be held back by my depleted supply of paper.

Greg Davis said:
You can also search my channel direct on YouTube under “Naked Photographer”

Thanks Greg, I'll do that!

Mike Chalmers · Oct 27, 2019

@Greg Davis

Greg Davis said:
I wanted my channel to be more comprehensive than most others I see,

Just watched part 1 and 2 and moving on to part 3. Can I just say thank you so much, these videos are excellent. Very similar to what I was taught in Scotland a few years back but really appreciate the in-depth reminder and I'm excited to get back to my darkroom tomorrow.

I've spent too long just scanning my negatives (at least I'm doing all my own processing). I imagine I'll be working my way through all your videos tomorrow, you are a fab presenter & teacher.

All the best

pentaxuser · Oct 27, 2019

Mike just as a matter of interest what was the filtration that got you the right picture. Thanks

pentaxuser

Mike Chalmers · Oct 27, 2019

pentaxuser said:
Mike just as a matter of interest what was the filtration that got you the right picture.

I had to stop after the first print post fixing my silly filter issue - 90Y 50M 0C - this isn't close to correct and the darkest exposure looks to be washed out, even in the blacks.

I'm planning to start afresh tomorrow, with newly mixed chemicals and with a few things I picked up from Greg's videos. Happy to provide my results as I will potentially need more help from more experienced eyes.

First ever enlargements - red and brown problem

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