First day with a Linhof Technika

[abruzzi]

ive never shot large format before, just roll film. I’ve been hemming and hawing for a couple of years but never pulled the trigger. I finally decided to jump. There are no places locally to buy cameras either, so this happened through lots of research online and some Hail Marys.

I placed two orders. On with KEH for a “bargain” condition Linhof Technika IV, 8 film holders, a Schneider Symmar-S 150/5.6, and a Schneider Symmar 210/5.6. The second was with Stearman for the SP-445 developing tank and a box of Fomapan 100. By luck, they were both delivered today with enough time for me to run through everything and take and develop 4 test shots to make sure I’m doing everything correctly.

Everything was a success, mostly. Though I did learn a few things.

1) with a lot of other things, KEH has always graded conservatively, and “bargain” usually meant pretty darn good. Some of this gear seems on the opposite side. The “bargain” camera looks well worn (though fully functional.). There is lots of wear and scuffing. The focus is sticky like the old lube is drying up. The 8 film holders were sold as “excellent” and two have cracked dark slides. One was so rough I would have graded it “ugly”. I’ll see if I can get replacements on film holders, but I’ll probably accept the camera as-is.

2) I held off on all the accessories I thought I’d need, partly because everything else tapped me out, but also because I wanted to make sure I actually needed the stuff before spending. I used a black T-shirt as my dark cloth and a spare enlarger 50/4 as my loupe for focusing. But I’m pretty sure I’m going to need these.

3) the T-shirt leaks a lot of light, but more importantly, it doesn’t let me get far enough from the ground glass to get a good view of the composition.

4) at the closer distances the ground glass would go dark where I wasn’t looking. This doesn’t have a fresnel I can see which also makes it harder to see the entire composition at once. I need to look into what options there are for a brighter screen. The original ground glass is a little scuffed as well, so it may be worth replacing.

5) that little pop up window with the shade for viewing the ground glass seems basically useless. It doesn’t shade very well, and if you try to block the light by getting closer, you’re too close to see the whole frame. It also doesn’t seem to hold open well. Maybe I’m missing something.

6) the camera came with three infinity stops installed. I’m not sure what they're set for, but the middle one is pretty close for the 150 lens.

7) I was surprised how close I could get with the bellows and the extra extension. I was maybe two feet away from the subject, and I’m guessing the magnification was about half full size.

8) I didn’t meter any of the shots—I mostly wanted to ensure that I could operate the camera and everything else correctly. So I used sunny 16 and added a couple stops for the closeup shot. The closeup still looked a little thin, so I’ll need to properly meter and adjust based on my bellows extension. Do people carry a ruler around to measure? Or do you just eyeball it?

9) loading the film in the film holders wasn’t that hard, but getting it out was. Go figure.

So hopefully it will get easier with practice. The biggest issue is a number of the limitations combined to make it hard to really compose my shots, as opposed to taking a “close enough” approach.

 

[btaylor]

I have a Linhof Technika IV as well, I really like using it as it sets up quickly. I have used the the shirt technique as a dark cloth too, but a purpose made one is an improvement. There are lots of DIY solutions out there, although I have picked up quite a few from classifieds for less than the cost of materials at a fabric store. Stick with it and see if it’s for you. If it isn’t, you can sell and recoup the costs. Good luck !

 

[Ian Grant]

Have you not got the focus hood ? While I don't have a Linhof I do have MPP MicroTechnical,cameras, a MkVII & MkIII plus another in bits, these are essentially British Linhof Technika copies. I also use a Super Graphic and with all these cameras find the focus hood is usually sufficient, I do carry a small home made dark cloth while I rarely need to use it it's,light and I wrap,my camera in it in a small backpack.

Ian

 

[AgX]

5) that little pop up window with the shade for viewing the ground glass seems basically useless. It doesn’t shade very well, and if you try to block the light by getting closer, you’re too close to see the whole frame. It also doesn’t seem to hold open well. Maybe I’m missing something.

That is the inherent issue with all waist-level kind of finders. You may try cheap reading glasses.

 

[Ian Grant]

Apologies I missed the bit where you said about the hood. The Linhof screen should be quite bright particularly with a fresnel however screens so vary. The original MPP and Graflex screens are very poor however replacing them and adding a fresnel,if possible makes a difference of 2 - 3 stops.

Ian

 

[abruzzi]

The screen isn’t bad, but it doesn’t have a fresnel that I can tell so illumination changes depending where I place my head. If I center my head the corners fall off pretty significantly. The inverted image makes it a challenge to compose, the dark corners make it even harder. I know I’m not going to change the inversion with a reflex hold, so I do need to solve the dark corners.

The other issue is that unlike the WLF hoods on my Bronica and Pentax 67, the hood on the Technka doesn’t open up rigid, so to use it I have to hold it open. I’ll keep playing with it but it seemed to get in the way more than help.

Overall, the thing that surprised me the most was that I was able to take 4 shots successfully without screwing them up. I was even able to test rise in one of the shots. A block away is a church with a statue out front. Due to the height of the pedestal, I’ve always shot the statue looking up, so I I took the shot parallel to the ground and with a significant amount of rise.

 

[Ian Grant]

The focus hood is faulty if it doesn't stay open reasonably rigidly. A fresnel is the answer to the corner brightness, but it may be you have a poor screen as well. The Linhof needs the screen placed over the back of the GG screen (opposite side to the lens and ground surface.

Ian

 

[abruzzi]

Well, my second outing was a little less successful. Again, 4 shots. One sheet wasn’t properly mounted in the film holder. The image was a little crooked on the sheet like it slid down when I removed the dark slide. On the positive side, the lens was stopped down to f22, and focused close to infinity (about 200 ft away) so the crooked image still looks sharp. The second error was one of the sheets was loaded backward in the developing tank (a Stearman SP-445) so the emulsion was lying against the plastic mount, which caused some developing problems.

 

[btaylor]

All those errors are par for the course. You’ll get used to it all. As mentioned above, the focusing hood should stay open on its own. Remove it and use a dark cloth if it gets in the way. I have a Linhof Color as well (its basically a rail mounted Technika) and I picked up a nice bright groundglass + fresnel combo from a Chinese seller on eBay, works great and inexpensive.

 

[mshchem]

I tried a bargain Technika from KEH a few years back. It was in terrible shape sent it back. These cameras are so heavy. I have a top rangefinder Crown Graphic that I love. And a really nice wide angle Calumet CC-4xx that will take a 65mm on a flat board. Linhof stuff is beautiful, but I can't justify paying for the condition I am after.

 

[AgX]

The hood should stay open by being spring-loaded: on the axle of the door-hinge sit two coilsprings, forcing the door open.
If they are broken/missing, one might try modifying found springs or even make them oneself.

 

[abruzzi]

I tried a bargain Technika from KEH a few years back. It was in terrible shape sent it back.

That may be the one I have now! It seems fully functional, and I'm sure it would be immensely improved with a replacement leather kit. The GG doesn't have fresnel, and I asked over on LFF about getting a fresnel for it. According to the Linhof expert over there, who is, I believe, the US importer, the IV was built without a fresnel. Then later they were modified to have a rear fresnel (between the GG and the lens.) Since mine doesn't have a fresnel, it could be an original unmodified back, or it could have lost the fresnel, and if so the GG will be placed inaccurately. He says the only way to know is to send it back to the service center and have them do a full CLA.

He has got me very scared that my camera might be a dud and I won't know unless send it in and pay big bucks. It might be worth it, but not if I don't keep going with LF, this was a "dip my toe in the water" test. Now he has me considering returning the camera to KEH for a camera without a history of undetectable factory modifications. KEH has an Ikeda for the same price, a Wista DX and Toyo CF for a little more, and a Wisner and Zone VI for a bit more than that.

 

[Ian Grant]

These cameras aren't usually difficult to sort out. What model is it ? It appears most modern Linhof cameras use spring clips to hold an accessory fresnel.

It's easy to add the fresnel, I do it quite regularly, I'd sort it out for you but distance makes it impractical.in terms of postage/shipping. It's a case of measuring the focus screen frame to see the T distance - the depth of the ground glass surface in the frame, that differs if a fresnel should be below the GG. The Chinese fresnels are excellent while I've not bought one myself (except for a TLR) I've fitted a few for others.

I serviced a Pacemaker Speed Graphic shutter and did a little restoration of the camera for a friend 2 years ago, adding new bellows and a fresnel, and in this case the focus was out as the original fresnel was missing. Don't let Mr Salomon scare you These issues are easily remedied at quite reasonable costs.

Ian

 

[abruzzi]

I’m a little unclear on some of this. Based on the thread from LFF it sounds like a fresnel on the outside doesn’t affect the focus position of the GG, but a fresnel between the GG and the lens requires the position of the GG change. Therefore the IV (the version I have) was shipped without a fresnel. Back then, if you wanted a fresnel, Linhof modified the back to change the position of the glass. Then the inner fresnel was installed and the glass on top of it.

It seems the current fresnel approach is to have a removable fresnel held on my clips. According to Mr. Solomon, if my GG is in the original unmodified position, I can simply order the clips and a factory fresnel, and retrofit them. I have no idea what the Linhof parts cost.

I have looked on eBay and found several options:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yanke-Supe...018687?hash=item25fcf9ca7f:g:urMAAOSw1x1UP1Dn

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Linhof...084337?hash=item33f776b631:g:b-AAAOSwfjVbyRS1

Since the whole screen position front/rear issue has muddied waters for me, I have no idea if these would work, or throw off focus. Are these designed to have the glass behind the fresnel, or vice versa?

What I was planning by next weekend is testing focus by shooting a test document with the 210mm lens at full extension (as close as possible) at f5.6. That should be the best I can test focus with what I have and the lack of information on measurements. Imagine that if focus is good under those conditions, it will be fine under any real world I might encounter.

 

[Ian Grant]

Don't go near that second seller in Ohio he's a con artist and was previously banned from Ebay. I had real problems with the screen not arriving, or a replacement. What eventually arrived was used and scratched but just outside the deadline for an Ebay dispute. A lot of others had quite similar issues, check Global Matters

The data I have for a Technika IV has no mention of a fresnel. You can run in circles waste a lot of film and time testing, easiest and cheapest is an electronic Verier Caliper and measure the T distance. You can always borrow one

I make adapters for film holder to fit old plate cameras, new backs etc, and the simplest way to get it right is measure.

Ian

 

[abruzzi]

To be clear the T distance is going to be the distance from the forward edge of the bracket that the ground glass is on to the ground side (inside) of the ground glass. Also the depth of a film holder essentially, right?

What depth should that be for a naked ground glass with no fresnel between the glass and lens? How accurate should the measurement be (i.e. is the difference between 7.03mm and 7.06mm meaningful? I can borrow some digital calipers from my brother or buy a set for $15.

(thanks for your clear straightforward answers!)

 

[mmerig]

Another way to check on ground glass position is to:
1. Take the lens off, and find a reference surface that is parallel to the film plane (like the inside edge of the front standard, the surface that the lens board sits against)
2. Put in a film holder with a sheet of film (or paper that looks close in thickness) and measure the distance to the film surface. I use a ruler with millimeter lines.
3. Take the film holder out, and measure to the ground ("frosted") side of the ground glass. This distance should be the same as in #2.
If it is not, the fresnel/ground glass order is incorrect, the ground glass needs to be reversed, or a combination of these two factors is wrong. This all assumes that the front standard is parallel to the film plane in both horizontal and vertical planes.

It's not that hard to measure to the nearest 0.5 millimeters, and if something is amiss, you'll get differences much larger than 0.5 mm. You can do multiple measures from the reference surface to make sure everything is parallel.

 

[btaylor]

I bought the Yankee screen from China. Works perfectly, no complaints. Before Bob gets things too out of hand, is there any reason to think the gg is not in the correct position? The Chinese screen puts the fresnel on the outside, so there is no issue with the gg position assuming your Tech IV was set up with a regular gg which it almost certainly was (though be sure to replace any shims under the gg the same way they came out).
Gad, too many worries. For now you might just wash the original gg with some dilute dishwashing liquid to be sure it is clean, take off the broken viewing hood and go out and shoot some film!

 

[AgX]

These cameras aren't usually difficult to sort out. What model is it ? It appears most modern Linhof cameras use spring clips to hold an accessory fresnel.

In old catalogs I did not find hints at fresnel etc. screens being bound to certain models per format.

 

[abruzzi]

I bought the Yankee screen from China. Works perfectly, no complaints. Before Bob gets things too out of hand, is there any reason to think the gg is not in the correct position?

No reason, other than the fact that he freaked me out by saying that I have no way of knowing that the screen is in the correct position. He implied that it is a common factory modification and the only way to tell is to send it in for service. I did a bunch of googling, and what I found suggests that the distance from the outer edge of the film holder to the surface of the film is .197 inches, or 5.004 mm. The precision needs to be +/- .007 inches or .178mm. If thats correct, I can measure to see for certain.

In old catalogs I did not find hints at fresnel etc. screens being bound to certain models per format.

According to Bob, the IV shipped without a fresnel. but when a fresnel became an option it was places between the GG and the lens. This necessitated modifying the back to compensate for the thickness of the fresnel and place the GG in the correct position. So if you removed the fresnel from a modified back then the GG would sit too close to the lens (by maybe a millimeter). Current models use a removable fresnel on the outside with clips on either side to remove it. You can see that diagrammed here:

http://linhof.com/en/fresnelscheibe-4x5/

 

[AgX]

Thank you!
Such is the issue with catalogs: one does not know whether the offer is intended to compile a new system, or also for spares or upgrading parts.

However, placing the fresnel lens between taking lens and ground-glass, as you put it, would not change the position of the focal plane.

 

[abruzzi]

However, placing the fresnel lens between taking lens and ground-glass, as you put it, would not change the position of the focal plane.

This is a guess, but if the back holds the glass in place by clamping a pice of glass against a ledge in the frame, then adding a fresnel between between the glass and the ledge will space the glass away from where it should be by the thickness of the fresnel piece.

So if the internal fresnel that Linhof originally used was 1mm thick, then they would need to machine the ledge down by 1mm, so the glass remain at the same position. Then if you discarded the fresnel and reinstalled the glass, it would now sit 1mm too close to the lens.

The info that Mr. Salomon posted was not complete, but that is how I interpreted it. Then for later versions of the Technika, Linhof wanted the fresnel to be removable (i can understand that the fresnel lines could be pretty distracting). So instead of an inside mount, they went to and outside mount with clips to hold it in place.

What this all boils down to is that early Technikas and late Technikas mount the glass at the film plane. And work fine without a fresnel or with an externally mounted fresnel. Middle Technikas (not sure the years or models) had an inner fresnel, that functions as a thick shim to move the glass it is sandwiched with in to position. If the fresnel is missing, the glass is out of place. My camera would have been an early design, but there is a chance (not sure how high) that it was factory modified to the middle designed back.

With some thought it seems the possibility is somewhat unlikely. For my camera to be screwed up: 1) a previous owner had to have had the camera modified by the factory, and 2) someone then removed and disposed of the fresnel. All of that is certainly possible, but it sounds like a low percentage of a low percentage.

Because of this, and the approach to just measure it, I’m getting less concerned about that, and more wondering about the condition of this camera, or if I want to return it to KEH and look for a better one. I’ve bought a lot of “bargain” grade equipment from KEH, and this is cosmetically much worse. It all seems to work, but the focus know is a bit stiff, the clamps to pull the front standard out are a pit stiff, especially when pushing it back in (that feels like the rangefinder hardware getting its the way), the rise knob feels loose and a bit wobbly.

 

[AgX]

Sorry, likely my fault.
There are at least six ways to design the mounts for ground glass and fresnel lens, out of which only two would affect the focal plane. For unknown reason I imagined one certain set-up.
I could not access Apug in time to delete my statement.