First attempt with Polaroid 104

Agulliver · Oct 18, 2016

I was given a Polaroid 104 by a friend a couple of months ago. It's not been used in at least 25 years but is in top condition. I've converted it to take 2 AAA batteries, and checked that it is light tight and that the shutter is working. All seems to be good, and even the old flash works with those M3 bulbs (I have a box of 10).

I got hold of some Fuji FP100c silk (brand new, expires in 2018) and had a go yesterday just taking a shot of a table with some fruit on it. I've attached the result. Any ideas what has happened? The bottom of the print is fine, showing the edge of the table. But most of the rest of the print is streaked white. Is this my poor technique in pulling the print out of the camera or is it some other fault?

For the record I did clean the rollers, but this is my first go with pack film. My only previous use of instant film was with the Polaroid 1000 SX70 camera way back in 1980/81 though I did see pack film being used with industrial cameras around that time too.

EdSawyer · Oct 18, 2016

Is the pack film loaded right? Definitely looks like a pulling issue, double check the rollers. Seems like poor spread of chemistry, but fp100c should be perfect as far as that goes, so I'd think equipment issue rather than film.

ic-racer · Oct 18, 2016

Stray light striking the film can come from many sources. Bellows leaks are a common source.

Agulliver · Oct 18, 2016

The bellows are fine, no light leaks. But I have had a second issue with the 2nd and 3rd photos, the photograph has separated from the "negative" part inside the camera.
I can pull the first narrow tab fine, but the other tab doesn't want to work.

What can I do to save the rest of the photos? I am assuming now that I need to do any adjustments in the dark? This is fun, but new to me.

mweintraub · Oct 18, 2016

I wonder if there's something wrong with the film. I know it hasn't expired yet, but I've heard of bad film being "fresh"

Prof_Pixel · Oct 18, 2016

Try taking a picture and then pulling it out of the camera in the dark.

Agulliver · Oct 18, 2016

There's a new problem now as mentioned in my post above. The photo is separating from the "negative" before I pull it out.

Kirks518 · Oct 18, 2016

I would start by cleaning the rollers (again). They could be gunked up, causing uneven spread and possibly even stickiness, lifting the layers off the film base.

Kirks518 · Oct 18, 2016

What's the expiration date on the film?

EdSawyer · Oct 18, 2016

still think the pack is loaded wrong, possibly. did you thread any tabs through the rollers or just put the pack in and close the door? The latter is the correct method.

Theo Sulphate · Oct 18, 2016

In your shot of the table, it looks like the developer wasn't spread. Possibly a loading issue or the rollers aren't tight together.

On my Polaroid with Fuji pack film, I just put the pack in, close the door (as Ed mentioned above), and ensure the tabs are sticking out and can be ruffled freely. I then pull the dark slide (long tab). Now the tab for film sheet 1 should be showing. After your photo, pull it out firmly and steadily.

Here's one of many videos on YouTube:

(he doesn't make a photo though, just sacrifices the first shot).

vdonovan · Oct 18, 2016

I agree with other posters, it sounds like the film was loaded wrong. It's very unlikely that the pack of film is bad.

I would take the pack out, clean the rollers and make sure they are seated correctly, then put the pack in again, per Theo Sulfate's video above. You'll only lose one shot when you take the pack out.

BAC1967 · Oct 18, 2016

Not related to the problems you are experiencing but you mentioned that you converted it to take two AA batteries. That's only 3 volts, that camera takes 4.5 volts, you should convert it to take three AA or AAA batteries. You can also make your own 4.5 volt battery from a 9 volt battery, there are instructions on the internet.

Truzi · Oct 18, 2016

I'll vote for the loading too. The first time I loaded FP100c, the tabs kept breaking off as I tried to pull the print. It can be easy to route the tabs the wrong way as sometimes the instructions aren't terribly obvious at first glance. The tabs should not stick out from the rollers.

Agulliver · Oct 19, 2016

As far as I can tell, I am doing what the instructional video suggests. I watched a couple of similar videos before loading the film. It's just slotted into it's place and then I shut the back of the camera. The black paper came out fairly easily, and the smaller white tab appeared as expected. Mechanically the first exposure worked, in that I was able to remove it from the camera as expected. But the second and third have separated, when I pull the smaller white tab the second tab simply doesn't appear. I have to go digging to find it, I actually briefly opened the back. I've attached a photo of what does come out once I can locate that second pull tab. It's good to know I will only waste one photo if I remove the pack and try again.

As for the film, it is fresh and has a 2018 expiry date. I believe this camera takes a 3V battery, there was an old one given to me with the camera but it's dead. Googling I have found information that this is a 3V camera, have I found incorrect information? BAC1967 suggests this should be 4.5V?

BAC1967 · Oct 19, 2016

Agulliver said:
As for the film, it is fresh and has a 2018 expiry date. I believe this camera takes a 3V battery, there was an old one given to me with the camera but it's dead. Googling I have found information that this is a 3V camera, have I found incorrect information? BAC1967 suggests this should be 4.5V?

View attachment 165595

I have never used that exact model but all the other ones I have used were 4.5 volts.

One thing that may be giving you problems with the tabs tearing is the springs that hold film in place. The old Polaroid film was in much sturdier packs that the Fuji film. The two springs behind the pack press too hard against it and can cause problems. There is a mod that I do on all my cameras with two bobby pins. These are from Peta W on Flickr

Step 1: Look at the Culprits - tabs on Fuji FP100 film pack by Peta W, on Flickr

Step 2: Bobby pin workaround by Peta W, on Flickr

EdSawyer · Oct 19, 2016

As mentioned, it's probably the springs - I had forgot about those. If you don't want to use the above solution, just cutting them off will work fine too - no problem, as the pack itself has springs built into it for a de-facto pressure plate.

Agulliver · Oct 21, 2016

I took out the film pack, cleaned the rollers again (they had become gunked with the first or second photo) and replaced the pack...next exposure was OK. It's very dark, but a recognisable photo of what I tried to photograph.

So...I know there's an adjustment on the camera for "lighter/darker" but I am also wondering if it could be an indication of too long or short processing?

skorpiius · Oct 21, 2016

I believe the Fuji packs are supposed to be self limited. I have a 250 model,and you need to use flash for any indoor shots as it's only 100 iso.
Try taking a pic out in bright sunlight.

EDIT: Actually the shutter should stay open up to 10 seconds so maybe it can do indoor shots. Make sure you have it set for 75 iso and not 3000, and make sure you wait for the 2nd click of the shutter closing rather than closing it yourself by taking your finger off the shutter release button. (indoors anyway, outside in daylight the two clicks will probably be so close together you won't hear them separately.)

skorpiius · Oct 21, 2016

By the way, here's some nice technical data

http://www.instantoptions.com/landlist/cameras/packfilm/100.php#104

Also re: development time, in room temperature you should wait 2 minutes more or less.

Agulliver · Oct 21, 2016

I had the camera set correctly for colour film, which I understand would have been ISO75 whereas the Fuji is 100. Not a huge difference but I do wonder if anyone has found this requires an exposure adjustment. The shutter opened for about a second, this was under artificial light resting the camera on a table. My living room is cool, around 18C so I gave it 2 minutes and 10 seconds. Was this too much? Does too long developing lead to a darker photo with this system?

Sorry for the noob questions, I'm totally new to pack film. And many thanks for everyone's input.

skorpiius · Oct 21, 2016

Agulliver said:
I had the camera set correctly for colour film, which I understand would have been ISO75 whereas the Fuji is 100. Not a huge difference but I do wonder if anyone has found this requires an exposure adjustment. The shutter opened for about a second, this was under artificial light resting the camera on a table. My living room is cool, around 18C so I gave it 2 minutes and 10 seconds. Was this too much? Does too long developing lead to a darker photo with this system?

Sorry for the noob questions, I'm totally new to pack film. And many thanks for everyone's input.

Ok yes 75 is the correct setting. Sounds like you have the development time down correctly as well. From what I've heard, too long a developing time did lead to darker photos for the original Polaroid film, but the Fuji film is apparently self limiting. Either way in room temps I've developed between 2 and 2.5 mins with perfect photos, so I don't think that's the issue. I would hightly suggest trying a daylight photo, and if that's too dark then we can see what else might be up.

skorpiius · Oct 21, 2016

By the way here's the manual in case you don't have it: http://www.cameramanuals.org/polaroid_pdf/polaroid_automatic_104.pdf

Also 3v battery confirmed

http://www.instantoptions.com/conversions/batteries.php

Agulliver · Oct 21, 2016

I have the manual, and the manual for the flash...the person who gave me the camera inherited it from a deceased relative who had kept it in immaculate condition complete with all the accessories.

I'll give it another go in daylight tomorrow. If nothing else I can adjust the exposure to "lighter". It's good to know that the films are self limiting. It's not been used in 25 years or more, quite remarkable that it is functioning.

Thanks for the help and advice.

skorpiius · Oct 21, 2016

No problem, I got my 250 maybe a year ago? and have put about 100 photos through it. I really love the photo quality. Hopefully in daylight it works ok, or works ok once the exposure is adjusted.

Note, I've only read that the Fuji film is self limited, I've never actually tested it.

First attempt with Polaroid 104

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