Finding out identity of man in photo

[BrianShaw]

Fascinating observation!

 

[snusmumriken]

See that tiny, L-shaped scar right under his left eye? That's your proof right there. Shell fragment from a grenade explosion in Korea. Nearly made him blind.

But it was his sister that did for him in the end?

 

[koraks]

I'm kinda wondering what happened to the OP.

Maybe they got a quick and satisfactory answer elsewhere. Or the question turned out to be not so pressing, and/or they might revisit later. It's also possible they've read the replies without logging in and don't see a need to respond further.

Periodically we seem to be getting very similar "first posts"

There's also a pattern to how such people are being "welcomed" here.

About a year ago, there was a somewhat similar case of someone inquiring after technical details of a photo. They were reluctant to post the photo here, which resulted in some friction. Long story short, that question ultimately contributed to a journal publication based on advice none of which was exchanged in the actual thread, but that many of us could have easily offered.

How about cut somebody some slack and give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[snusmumriken]

There is a Reddit r/FoundPhotos which would be a more likely place for the OP to start. After all, this is a forum about taking photographs, not about identifying people.

 

[BrianShaw]

Melissa Macillus

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

www.youtube.com

 

[Alex Benjamin]

But it was his sister that did for him in the end?

Remember, his sister lived in Santa Rosa, California, where he died. Photo was found in a thrift shop in Sonoma, California, just a few miles from there. The story of how it got there just writes itself.

 

[Ben 4]

OK, I'll give it a try.

Guy's name is William "Billy" J. Perkins. He was a sargent in the US Army, did two tours in Korea between 1951 and 1953. Perkins was originally from Ottumwa, Iowa. He had enlisted in the US Army right after his father died at Iwo Jima in early March 1945.

Photo was actually taken in Salt Lake City, Utah (how it got to Sonoma, CA, is an interesting story in itself), on June 25th, 1954. Billy Perkis was then stationed in Pocatello, Idaho, but used to go visit friends in Salt Lake City on weekends (thus the reason why he's not in uniform on the photo). Photographer in this particular case was not the one whose name appears on the back side of the photo, but, as was often the case in these days, his assistant, one Montgomery "Monty" Jones, originally from Perry, Georgia, who later returned to his home state and for a few years ran a successful photo studio in Augusta.

A couple of interesting photo facts related to this story. For one, Billy Perkins' father, Robert J. Perkins, was standing right next to Joe Rosenthal when he shot his Pulitzer Prize-winning photo of the marines raising the American flag on Mount Suribachi. You can actually see Robert J. on a couple of frames on Rosenthal's contact sheets for that day (ressemblance with his son Billy is quite striking).

Monty Jones got his taste for photography from briefly meeting Gordon Parks in Washington, D.C., not long after the photographer got hired by Roy Striker.

Other fun fact: one of the consultants on the show M*A*S*H* — I forget his name — had served in Korea, had met Billy Perkins there, and had told a few stories about him to Larry Gelbart. The fact that Walter "Radar" O'Reilly is from Ottumwa, Iowa, his farm-boy naiveté and a few other personality traits of the character played by Gary Burghoff that weren't stated in the original book or movie, were inspired by the real-life Billy Perkins. Perkins never got to see the show. He died in 1967 from a heart attack while visiting his sister in Santa Rosa, California.

Did I get it right?

Brilliant!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Or scientist Daniel Westin (David McCallum).

Dr. Richard Kimble!

 

[BradS]

Remember, his sister lived in Santa Rosa, California, where he died. Photo was found in a thrift shop in Sonoma, California, just a few miles from there. The story of how it got there just writes itself.

Sonora, not Sonoma

 

[BradS]

Maybe they got a quick and satisfactory answer elsewhere. Or the question turned out to be not so pressing, and/or they might revisit later. It's also possible they've read the replies without logging in and don't see a need to respond further.


How about cut somebody some slack and give them the benefit of the doubt.

I live in rural Tuolumne county about 7 miles east of Sonora, California. Sonora is the ONLY incorporated city in Tuolumne county. Despite being relatively large in terms land area, the population of the whole county is less than 55,000. It is a very sparsely populated area. I do not often encounter other photographers, let alone photographers who may also be large format users. The OP could be my neighbor - relatively speaking. So, yeah, I'm curious. I'd really like the OP to return and participate.

 

[BobUK]

I have a similar problem.

Can anybody point out my cousin Billy?
Distinguishing features, glass eye and mole on his left ear.

Thank you.

 

[pbromaghin]

D. B. Cooper.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

I live in rural Tuolumne county about 7 miles east of Sonora, California. Sonora is the ONLY incorporated city in Tuolumne county. Despite being relatively large in terms land area, the population of the whole county is less than 55,000. It is a very sparsely populated area. I do not often encounter other photographers, let alone photographers who may also be large format users. The OP could be my neighbor - relatively speaking. So, yeah, I'm curious. I'd really like the OP to return and participate.

who needs the OP? Thread evolved itself just fine

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Sonora, not Sonoma

Dang! My mistake... So now the story of how it got from Santa Rosa to Sonora becomes even more intriguing...

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Probably it was send to Sonora by mistake, and since no one received package, US Postal donated to thirsty store?

 

[bernard_L]

It's also possible they've read the replies without logging in and don't see a need to respond further.

Not even two simple words?

 

[BradS]

Dang! My mistake... So now the story of how it got from Santa Rosa to Sonora becomes even more intriguing...

Indeed! I did some digging....

See those two rectangular marks on the back of the photo? They look kinda like a passport stamps. I took the liberty of enhancing the OP's image a little bit in this enlarged image. Although a bit fuzzy, we can plainly see, these stamps indicate that the photo was previously owned by Graham Nash and held in his personal photo collection. Just like the stamps in a passport, the stamps show the date and place the photo was acquired (Fresno, CA 22-June-1970) and the date and place it was "released" from the collection. Graham Nash sold off most, if not all of his extensive collection of photos, when his interest in art photos waned (according to his autobiography, "Wild Tales: A Rock & Roll Life"). Lucky collectors can still find some of the photos from the Nash collection in small specialty dealers in San Francisco (there's a notable dealer near the Leica Store). Many of the photos ended up in the hands of wealthy individuals and corporate collections in the SF Bay area. The Mumm Winery in Napa acquired several hundred of the photos and displayed as many as fifty at a time the private gallery adjacent to its outdoor patio area - the rest of Mumm's holdings remained in nearby storage. This photo was included in those acquired by The MummWinery gallery.

Anyway, back to the "acquired" stamp. It says the photo was acquired on the 22nd of June 1970 in Fresno, California. In an entry made on the date of purchase, in his unpublished personal memoirs, conserved at the Mumm Winery Art Gallery, Graham Nash relates that he "purchased a handful of prints represented as being of historical significance from the Peterbilt dealership in Fresno, California this afternoon" while he, Crosby and Stills (but not Neil Young!) were in Fresno for a few days, playing the local nightclub scene under a phony name prior heading down to LA on the 25th to do a show at the Fabulous Forum. The historical significance of the photos turned out to be somewhat dubious, however. Although several of the photos are believed to depict scenes and personages related to the mid-nineteenth century Gold Rush in the Motherlode region of California, the subject photo was of only very modest regional significance; and that, only in Pocatllo, Idaho.

After being discharged from the service, Billy studied to be a Diesel Mechanic on the G.I. Bill. Earning Peterbilt manufacturer's specific certifications, he got his first job working for the Jackson Group Peterbilt at the company HQ in Salt Lake City. Always a reliable and fastidious worker, Billy demonstrated considerable skill in the shop and, during a brief stint filling in at the service writers' station, he also show himself adept at interacting with grouchy truckers. Always seeking aditional training and certifications, he advanced rapidly. After several years, he was transferred from the H.Q. in SLC to Pocatello, Idaho where he was to become the lead tech at a new dealership the Jackson Group were opening.

Unfortunately, although very competent wrenching, Jeremy Bailey, the man promoted to shop forman at the Pocatello store, was an incompetent leader and morale of the crew in the shop suffered. In an effeort to boost morale the store general manager in Pocatello, Henry "Hank" Solberger, a war veteran and Harvard grad, asked employes to provide photos of themselves - which were framed and displayed in the employee break room.

Back in California, E.M. "Gene" Tharp and his two sons, Michael and Morris were expanding the family business. The Tharp family, anticipating the coming “Supercenter” trend, began building a comprehensive One-Stop Truck Center near Porterville, CA, in 1968. The truck sales headquarters soon were complemented by a parts department, repair shop, body shop, fuel shop and a welding and tire shop. In 2004 the company purchased Kroeger Equipment & Supply in Fresno and continues to expand, opening of Golden State TRP in Bakersfield in 2022 and Golden State TRP in Madera in 2024. Back in 1968, they were relatively still new to the business, Gene and Michael arranged visits to estblished dealerships in the area. Jackson Group Peterbilt HQ in Salt Lake City was the second on their itinery. While there, it was sugghested that they visit the new, smaller operation up in Pocatella - on their tour and during a brief stop in the break room, Michael saw the photos but said nothing about them at the time. Over many years and industry conventions, the Tharps cultivated their relationships with Hank Solberger. They visited each others' stores and ate dinner at each others' homes. In 2019 while visiting Hank, who was now back at the H.Q. in Salt Lake, Hank presented the photo that is the subject of this thread as a gift to Michael. Back in the California central valley, Morris (the dumber of the two sons) proudly added the photo to a small collection displayed in the showroom of the dealership in Fresno.

and so, the photo went from Salt Lake City to Pocatello Idaho back to Salt Lake and from there to Fresno, to London and beyond and eventually ending up in a forlorn storage room adjacent to the Mumm Winey Art Gallery. How it got from there to Sonora, I do not know but it sometimes happens that folks from the San Francisco Bay area, either before or after visiting Yosemite, stop by Sonora for refreshments and dinner. It's a little out-of-the-way and generally, in the wrong direction but it does have it's charms.

 

[BrianShaw]

I may have additional information on how the picture got to Sonora. My great-Uncle was an equipment supplier to the wineries in Napa-Sonoma Valley. He told me that during an expansion of the Mum's Winery for a new product line, they needed to clear out some space for a new canning machine. That was sometime in the 1960's or 1970's, I think. Unkle Lewie sold Mum's a RoboCan2000. At the time, it was a super-high-tech beverage canning machine, as indicated by the model number. Part of the gallery was taken over for that purpose. Some of the items were moved into other parts of the winery and a lot was put in storage. More space was needed so that on-site storage factility wa cleared out. A bigger off-site storage facility was procured in Sonoma but when the shipping labels were printed there was a typo...

On arrival in Sonora, the cost of shipping back to Sonoma was cost-prohibitive so was sold at pennies-on-the-dollar to a local antique dealer. He is said to have sold these goods at various swap meets until his retirement and that's when the residue was donated to a thrift whop.

 

[snusmumriken]

I may have additional information on how the picture got to Sonora. My great-Uncle was an equipment supplier to the wineries in Napa-Sonoma Valley. He told me that during an expansion of the Mum's Winery for a new product line, they needed to clear out some space for a new canning machine. That was sometime in the 1960's or 1970's, I think. Unkle Lewie sold Mum's a RoboCan2000. At the time, it was a super-high-tech beverage canning machine, as indicated by the model number. Part of the gallery was taken over for that purpose. Some of the items were moved into other parts of the winery and a lot was put in storage. More space was needed so that on-site storage factility wa cleared out. A bigger off-site storage facility was procured in Sonoma but when the shipping labels were printed there was a typo...

On arrival in Sonora, the cost of shipping back to Sonoma was cost-prohibitive so was sold at pennies-on-the-dollar to a local antique dealer. He is said to have sold these goods at various swap meets until his retirement and that's when the residue was donated to a thrift whop.

Phew, that’s incredible sleuthing by both @Alex Benjamin and you, especially given how little you had to go on in the beginning. You know, it’s only a very hazy recollection, but I think I may have actually seen that photo when it passed through London.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

that’s incredible sleuthing by both @Alex Benjamin and you, especially given how little you had to go on in the beginning.

Don't forget @BradS who brilliantly supplied most of the missing links. That said, Brad doesn't seem aware that it was Jerry Garcia who gave the photo to Graham Nash. How Garcia got the photo in the first place is a question that would merit some investigation, but it woudn't be far-fetched to think that he might have met Billy Perkins either during his basic training in Fort Ord, or later, when Garcia was stationed in Fort Winfield Scott.

 

[snusmumriken]

Don't forget @BradS who brilliantly supplied most of the missing links. That said, Brad doesn't seem aware that it was Jerry Garcia who gave the photo to Graham Nash. How Garcia got the photo in the first place is a question that would merit some investigation, but it woudn't be far-fetched to think that he might have met Billy Perkins either during his basic training in Fort Ord, or later, when Garcia was stationed in Fort Winfield Scott.

Indeed, that was very remiss of me. My apologies and thanks to @BradS.

 

[BobUK]

A forum that I joined sometime ago had a rule that new members could neither see other members details nor post questions until after a fortnight had elapsed.
I think this was to deter time wasters.
Would this be a difficult thing to put into action here on Photrio?

 

[MattKing]

A forum that I joined sometime ago had a rule that new members could neither see other members details nor post questions until after a fortnight had elapsed.
I think this was to deter time wasters.
Would this be a difficult thing to put into action here on Photrio?

You would have to explain what a fortnight is .
There are a few "behind the scenes" tools that engage more with new users, but they are oriented toward deterring spam.
I would be reluctant to impose a "no questions" rule, because I think many people join Photrio in order to ask questions.

 

[BrianShaw]

FFF system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MattKing]

FFF system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hey - I don't need the explanation!
But the folks at SNL have a great bit on a related issue: https://x.com/i/status/1803615745198424512