I said "up to" four stops, then explained that it was two across the board (by rating at 100), and often more manually in addition.
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I said "up to" four stops, then explained that it was two across the board (by rating at 100), and often more manually in addition.
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How about trying film reticulation for a really grainy effect? You might not be able to get a lab to do this but if you process the film yourself you can do whatever you want.
2F, I've had really great grain with Kodak E200, rated around 1000 to 1200, then pushed 3 stops. Further pushing (4 or 5 stops) actually didn't really do anything in my experience as far as film speed, it only shifted the color and reduced dmax, but the grain did increase further also.
Provia really is an robust film for pushing and pulling and what such.
I've no idea about cross processing or the colors you're looking for. But cross processing, being so big in the 80s, I imagine is due for a come back.
Provia really is an robust film for pushing and pulling and what such.
I've no idea about cross processing or the colors you're looking for. But cross processing, being so big in the 80s, I imagine is due for a come back.
Hi,
The effect with Provia 400X (and F) is mild, which is why I like it.
The best film I ever used for this look was Provia 1600. It was an ISO 400 film that needed P2 processing at EI 1600. It had even less effect on color; in fact, I would not even have guessed that it was crossed the first time I did it. It is just highly saturated in some areas. I am out of this film, so I have been experimenting looking for something else, and I discovered how nice 400X is for this. 400X sometimes goes too magenta/brown for me, but that is part of what makes it so interesting. It looks nothing like Provia 1600, but certainly looks neat.
As for overexposure vs. underexposure and a push to increase grain, two points: 1. the underexposure/push method stacks too much contrast (for what I want) onto an already contrasty process. 2. Everything I have experienced personally tells me that extreme overexposure is a better way to obtain gnarly grain...and has the added benefit of lowering the contrast of a contrasty process.
Keith, yes that is what I meant by a grain screen. I have never done it, and would love to see some examples.
I will try E200 as well. That is a film I have not tried crossed. If it is anywhere as "normal" looking as EPN when crossed, maybe it will work (assuming it is grainier than Provia 400X).
Cross processing is something I do not do a lot, but I have done large projects and a lot of experimentation with it in the past. I don't know if it is "coming back" or if it ever went away, but anything that involves the consumption of film is good, IMO.
John, is that Fuji 800 a slide film?
Thomas, all I have now is some CVS scans. (Yes - CVS has done my cross processing as of late, as I have been in a rush on the last two rolls.)
Provia 1600 (ISO 400 film at EI 100):
(Both of these are 16x20 RA prints.)
This is a full frame print on 16x20 paper, so probably 12x18 or so.
(I have not printed these two, and don't think that I will.)
Provia 400X (overexposed three stops):
These last two are not printed. They were too "serious" for the project. I printed the more awkward first pic instead, full frame on 16x20 paper. These were not intended to be portraits.
In reality, the top was black and the seamless was grey.
Even in the large print, the grain is not obtrusive like I want it to be.
Apparently, my Geocities isn't working due to bandwidth restrictions, so I had to start using Flickr instead. Not sure how to use it yet, so bear with me.....
The effect with Provia 400X (and F) is mild, which is why I like it.
The best film I ever used for this look was Provia 1600. It was an ISO 400 film that needed P2 processing at EI 1600. It had even less effect on color; in fact, I would not even have guessed that it was crossed the first time I did it. It is just highly saturated in some areas. I am out of this film, so I have been experimenting looking for something else, and I discovered how nice 400X is for this. 400X sometimes goes too magenta/brown for me, but that is part of what makes it so interesting. It looks nothing like Provia 1600, but certainly looks neat.
As for overexposure vs. underexposure and a push to increase grain, two points: 1. the underexposure/push method stacks too much contrast (for what I want) onto an already contrasty process. 2. Everything I have experienced personally tells me that extreme overexposure is a better way to obtain gnarly grain...and has the added benefit of lowering the contrast of a contrasty process.
Keith, yes that is what I meant by a grain screen. I have never done it, and would love to see some examples.
I will try E200 as well. That is a film I have not tried crossed. If it is anywhere as "normal" looking as EPN when crossed, maybe it will work (assuming it is grainier than Provia 400X).
Cross processing is something I do not do a lot, but I have done large projects and a lot of experimentation with it in the past. I don't know if it is "coming back" or if it ever went away, but anything that involves the consumption of film is good, IMO.
John, is that Fuji 800 a slide film?
Thomas, all I have now is some CVS scans. (Yes - CVS has done my cross processing as of late, as I have been in a rush on the last two rolls.)
Provia 1600 (ISO 400 film at EI 100):
(Both of these are 16x20 RA prints.)
This is a full frame print on 16x20 paper, so probably 12x18 or so.
(I have not printed these two, and don't think that I will.)
Provia 400X (overexposed three stops):
These last two are not printed. They were too "serious" for the project. I printed the more awkward first pic instead, full frame on 16x20 paper. These were not intended to be portraits.
In reality, the top was black and the seamless was grey.
Even in the large print, the grain is not obtrusive like I want it to be.
Apparently, my Geocities isn't working due to bandwidth restrictions, so I had to start using Flickr instead. Not sure how to use it yet, so bear with me.....
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Well, here is a seat-of-the-pants high grain process for cross processing the way you want it. 
Develop the film in something like Dektol 1:3 or 1:7 for optimum silver imaging by eyeball, playing with the time, but running it at 100 F. Use the exposures you want to use with this. So it will be Overexpose and Underdevelop, I guess.
Follow this process:
Stop
Wash
Fix
Wash
Rehal bleach
Wash
Expose to light
Run normal C41 process - the first development MUST give the desired B&W silver image for this to work.
If this does not work, then instead of the C41 process use this:
Expose to light
C-41 developer - normal time and temp.
Stop
Wash
Rehal bleach
Wash
Repeat from the Expose to light until the desired color image contrast is achieved.
Finish off in any case, with the C41 bleach, fix, wash and final rinse.
Proper use of this process can give grain about the size of Locomitive Ball Bearings.
Color, color balance and sharpness may go into the weeds but may work. It varies from film to film.
--------------
Rehal bleach.
Potassium Ferricynaide, 50 g/l
Sodium Bromide 50 g/l
Use as is, or if too strong, dilute 1:1 with water until the time and result is manageable.
Have fun.
PE
Develop the film in something like Dektol 1:3 or 1:7 for optimum silver imaging by eyeball, playing with the time, but running it at 100 F. Use the exposures you want to use with this. So it will be Overexpose and Underdevelop, I guess.
Follow this process:
Stop
Wash
Fix
Wash
Rehal bleach
Wash
Expose to light
Run normal C41 process - the first development MUST give the desired B&W silver image for this to work.
If this does not work, then instead of the C41 process use this:
Expose to light
C-41 developer - normal time and temp.
Stop
Wash
Rehal bleach
Wash
Repeat from the Expose to light until the desired color image contrast is achieved.
Finish off in any case, with the C41 bleach, fix, wash and final rinse.
Proper use of this process can give grain about the size of Locomitive Ball Bearings.
Color, color balance and sharpness may go into the weeds but may work. It varies from film to film.--------------
Rehal bleach.
Potassium Ferricynaide, 50 g/l
Sodium Bromide 50 g/l
Use as is, or if too strong, dilute 1:1 with water until the time and result is manageable.
Have fun.
PE
Thanks. I will try that.
One question:
I have D-19 on hand, but no Dektol. Would that work?
One question:
I have D-19 on hand, but no Dektol. Would that work?
Yes, it might, but you might not like the contrast. D8 would also probably work but with a contrast problem. IDK, this was OTOMH. I've used something like it to get some pretty weird results.
PE
PE
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2F
the fuji 800 is a c41 film.
the fuji 800 is a c41 film.
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