Film with the Highest ISO rating (true)

[htmlguru4242]

I've ben thinking about this. Between all of the high-speed films (Fujicolor 1600, Delta 3200, TMax 3200, Neopan 1600, etc.), which emulsion actually has the highest true speed? It seems to be that the Fujicolor 1600 is actually 1600, but I;m not sure. Does anybody actually know?

 

[Lee L]

I've shot almost 20 rolls of Fuji Superia 1600 color film (not the new Natura version available in Japan), and found that I need to downrate it to about 1250 or 1000 to prevent the shadows from having that gray, grainy, underexposed look.

I've shot Delta 3200 and TMZ, but not enough to answer your question. Speed there will also depend on your choice of developer and agitation pattern.

If you read Kodak Tech Pub F-4016, page 19, you'll see that Kodak rates TMZ at 1000 ISO in TMAX developers and as rounded to 800 ISO in other developers. I had my lab manager enlarge and post this section at the drop off window of the lab I printed for when TMZ first came out, because I had people wanting me to print shadow detail that wasn't there, even though they shot at the big 3200 number on the box.

Lee

 

[Gerald Koch]

I can't comment on color since I don't use it. I do think that Kodak and Ilford were being dishonest by including 3200 in the film names when these films are not that fast,

 

[Paul Howell]

I have been able to get a good 1600 with TMAX using Acufine, Edwal 12, D777, and in 6X9 DK 50. I treat 3200 as a push with Acufine and got good results for a push. I bought a roll of TX 3200 to test push to 6400 in Acufine and Edwal 12. Neopan seems to come close to box speed at 1600 in DDX, but I have problem finding Neopan in my local market.

 

[df cardwell]

The three B&W films are intended to give a range of practical speeds, from 640 to 12,500 and beyond. Their 'true speed' cannot be measured by conventional means, as a BTZS practitioner might determine the speed of a film for shooting LF. Judge them by midtones, and a practical usable scale. My personal standards are far lower than those of a Fine Artist, so I'm delighted by these films.

At 12,500 the films give superb midtones at the expense of a infinite range of details at Zone III. Great trade-off.

My experience with TMZ goes back to it's pre-introduction when I was fortunate to have some of the mystery film in a plain yellow box. The guy from Kodak said to shoot it between 1600 and 12,500, soup it in D76, and try a roll before gambling the mortgage.

Over the next 6 months, I shot a thousand rolls of the stuff, exposed between 640 and 25,000 and got great results. The working practice was, and is, shoot it at whatever speed is needed for the shot and develop accordingly. I haven't looked back. It was a whole new world from my previous 18 years shooting Tri X at 1600 and hoping for the best. You have NO IDEA !

I use XTOL now, and don't do much above 3200 anymore ( leading a duller life, I guess ) but the film becomes anything I need it to be. Soft, foggy, smoky, rich and glowy at 640, pointilistic and razor sharp at 6400, reliable and practical at 25,000. I grew up with Royal X and Recording film: they were a grotesque joke compared to TMZ.

I've used Fuji and Ilford enough to confirm they pretty much work the same way, and that if I ironed them out as I had TMZ, they'd be equally dependable.

True Speed ? Decide what you want the 3200 films to do for you, and develop your technique to suit 'em. Don't treat them like some ISO 25 film, get to know them and go have some fun.

.

 

[Colden]

Fascinating post, df cardwell. Please post details of your experience with Tmax 3200 and how you rate and develop it in different circumstances. I believe your information is extremely valuable, and I personally would be both excited and thankful to read about your fine-tuning techniques.

I have a supply of Tmax 3200 film right now that I am about 1/2 way through, and this discussion couldn't have happened at a better time for what I'm trying to do.

Certainly, I'm sure, many people on APUG would be delighted to hear more about your findings with TMZ.

 

[df cardwell]

.... Please post details of your experience with Tmax 3200 and how you rate and develop it in different circumstances. ......

YIKES !

It's pretty simple: start with the Kodak data and play.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4016/f4016.pdf

I've settled on XTOL. Try 1+1.

With the kind of scene you'd like to shoot in mind, look over the development chart and find a speed that interests you. SHOOT a roll under representative conditions, bracketing a couple stops either side of the suggested speed. Develop the roll, proof it, and print the ones that look good.

Repeat the process with other speeds, and you'll have a good framework. A little experience will fill in the blanks. KEEP NOTES.

If you like to shoot nightime city scenes, try 3200 to begin with. You may find you need to expose it at 1600, or 6400, to get a pleasing negative under those conditions. Fine. Repeat the process with 800, or 6400, and see what you get.

This is a seat-of-the-pants process, and the more dainty photographers out there might get the vapours thinking about shooting without their densitometer.... but it's fun... and it takes you places that don't allow viewcameras.

As I often shoot under a lot of contrasty light, I do everything I can to build shadows and hold back the highlights. XTOL 1+1 works well with reduced agitation ( in my case, agitation for 15 seconds every 5th minute ). To get a starting point for a development time, look at the chart for the 1+1 time for normal development, and double it.

For example, for ei 3200, 1+1 is 18 1/2 minutes. I'd try 37 minutes with agitation every 5th minute. Shoot the roll under various conditions at 800, 1600, 3200, and 6400. See what you get, and figure out how you can use it. Then, go have some fun.

d

 

[Donald Qualls]

Between all of the high-speed films ... which emulsion actually has the highest true speed?

Polaroid Type 667, Type 87, and Type 57 have the highest true speed in current manufacture, with an honest ISO 3000. Sorry, no usable negative.

Polaroid at one time made a high contrast CRT recording film with ASA 20,000, according to the Land List; can't imagine that had much of a shelf life...

 

[sanderx1]

I've ben thinking about this. Between all of the high-speed films (Fujicolor 1600, Delta 3200, TMax 3200, Neopan 1600, etc.), which emulsion actually has the highest true speed? It seems to be that the Fujicolor 1600 is actually 1600, but I;m not sure. Does anybody actually know?

Fujicolor 1600 is actually 1600 for all practical purposes. Its a grainy and contrasty film though. The apparent extra grain doesn't mean its any slower.