film washer

Rinthe · Mar 23, 2010

I'm going to be using stainless steel tanks. at my school, they have these small plastic washers that fills from the bottom, but i can't find anything like this on bh or adorama, the ones they have are really big.. and expensive.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/43229-REG/Doran_PR535FW_Vacuum_Action_Roll_Film.html/mode/edu

anyone know where i can get smaller ones?

CBG · Mar 23, 2010

Maybe try ebay or make your own from 4" PVC pipe and some sheet plastic. I have made a roll film washer before. It's not a difficult project. The function is the same as the item you linked to other than that I have omitted the quick dump and the bubbling features.

Use a 4" "Schedule 40" PVC end cap or closet flange so you get a good horizontal surface on the bottom to mount the 4" tube to a base made from sheet PVC plastic. The base will stabilize the pipe so it doesn't fall over easily, and it will provide a path for water to get to the bottom of the pipe.

Use plumber's cement made for PVC. Some plumber's cements are made for other plastics. Don't use them unless the package says it is good for PVC. Cut a tube an inch or so longer than the tallest pile of reels you wish to wash at one time. Use the pipe cleaning solvent first to prep the pipe for the plumber's cement.

Saw three matching size rectangles from a sheet of PVC. They will form a hollow box that will channel water to the bottom of the tube. Cut a hole in the middle of one rectangle as large as the pipe's inside diameter. The three rectangles are then "layer caked" together to form a hollow solid. The closet flange is glued on top of the layer cake.

Drill through the flange and the top of the layer cake only - like swiss cheese - so water can rise easily and evenly up through the tube. Don't drill through the bottom. You'll need to scavenge a fitting from the hardware store to hook some tubing from the washer to the faucet. And you'll need to sort out a way to affix that fitting to the layer cake.

The last major step is to cement the tube into the flange. Sounds like a lot but it comes together pretty fast.

ozphoto · Mar 23, 2010

Why not just save some $$ and use Ilford's wash method? Works really well, saves on water and is archival as well.

clayne · Mar 23, 2010

Takes less than 10 minutes to wash film, don't bother with extensive devices unless you've got 200 rolls to process.

Doremus Scudder · Mar 23, 2010

Use a piece of surgical tubing attached to your water supply. Stick it down the center of the reel to the bottom of the tank and let it run. Dump the tank several times during the wash. Wash for 20-30 minutes. As long as the water is flowing over the film surface, up and out of the tank, you'll be fine.

If you really need a nifty plex washer, look on one of the auction sites for a Wat-Air washer. I does essentially what I have described above, but you get to watch! Here's a link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Wat-Air-Roll-Fi...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414dfd5f7f

Best,

Doremus Scudder

Rick A · Mar 23, 2010

I've abandoned all the gadgets for washing film in favor of the Ilford method. I feel the need to conserve water. I do have a home made print washer, but only use it for fiber prints. The cost of water in my community is a bit on the steep side, and I hate when my bill goes over $50 a month. I could use that money for film or chems.

Rick

Rinthe · Mar 23, 2010

what is this ilford washing method?

stillsilver · Mar 23, 2010

I second the Ilford method. Except I do the 5 inversion step 3 times.

Mike

RalphLambrecht · Mar 23, 2010

stillsilver said:
I second the Ilford method. Except I do the 5 inversion step 3 times.

Mike

There are several implementations of Ilford's washing proposal. The original idea is based on the fact that film and print washing is a combination of replacement and diffusion. We must not forget that diffusion takes time, so, the time between water replacements is critical (especially with prints). The optimum time depends on the film to water ratio, but 5-6 minutes are typical suggestions.

The Ilford washing method does indeed save water, but it takes an attended process. Using a hypo clearing agent, followed by 10-minute slow-running water rinse is a very effective method to wash film, without wasting water. Again, time and not water flow rate is the key for diffusion. You cannot improve the speed of washing by doing it in Niagara Falls, but running water keeps diffusion as high as possible and should be considered as the preferred method, unless water is at a premium.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 23, 2010

Rinthe said:
I'm going to be using stainless steel tanks. at my school, they have these small plastic washers that fills from the bottom, but i can't find anything like this on bh or adorama, the ones they have are really big.. and expensive.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/43229-REG/Doran_PR535FW_Vacuum_Action_Roll_Film.html/mode/edu

anyone know where i can get smaller ones?

Why don't you use your development tank?

MattKing · Mar 23, 2010

Just to emphasize one part of Ralph's points, a "slow-running" rinse is just that - slow!

For example, where Kodak recommends a 5 minute wash in running water (after using HCA) they indicate that the water flow only needs to be enough to ensure one change of water in that 5 minutes. In most cases, I would think that a 1 liter tank can easily be refilled entirely with a water flow of 2 liters in that 5 minute time, which is a slow flow indeed.

mrred · Mar 23, 2010

Rinthe said:
I'm going to be using stainless steel tanks. at my school, they have these small plastic washers that fills from the bottom, but i can't find anything like this on bh or adorama, the ones they have are really big.. and expensive.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/43229-REG/Doran_PR535FW_Vacuum_Action_Roll_Film.html/mode/edu

anyone know where i can get smaller ones?

I have one and it sits on the shelf. I got mine at Dead Link Removed . It is worth the $$, if you use it. As discussed, the Ilford method works just fine for me.

fschifano · Mar 23, 2010

Your developing tank makes a first class film washer. I often use the tank in favor of my other first rate film washer, a plastic tub with a few small holes poked through the bottom with a piece of hot wire. With the tank, I simply stick a hose down the center core and let the water run at a trickle. Walk away and fifteen minutes later, you're done. With the tub, the water comes in on top and exits at the bottom. Same deal, walk away and fifteen minutes later it's done.

Spend big bucks on a film washer that's essentially no more than a tarted up plastic tank? I don't think so.

Rinthe · Mar 23, 2010

do i need to use hypo clear if i use the ilford washing method?

removed account4 · Mar 23, 2010

why don't you just fill and dump your film tank ?
it works as well as anything you can buy ...

fschifano · Mar 23, 2010

Rinthe said:
do i need to use hypo clear if i use the ilford washing method?

Hypo clear is not at all necessary for films or RC papers. It's main use is for fiber based papers. It does no harm, but it affords no benefit either.

Sim2 · Mar 23, 2010

RalphLambrecht said:
Using a hypo clearing agent, followed by 10-minute slow-running water rinse is a very effective method to wash film, without wasting water. Again, time and not water flow rate is the key for diffusion. You cannot improve the speed of washing by doing it in Niagara Falls, but running water keeps diffusion as high as possible and should be considered as the preferred method, unless water is at a premium.

That is a very useful nugget of info - standard thought can be that the water has to "rush" through the film to wash it effectively, perhaps aided by the naming of the Paterson force film washer in the uk. Sounds better to the marketing people than "dribble film washer"! However, it installs the thought that water has to be forced or rushed when washing.

Good to know that a little does as much as a lot, at least in this respect. Cheers for the info.

Sim2.

CBG · Mar 23, 2010

The middle of my Hewes 120 reels are pretty much filled with stainless rod, and do not have space to stick a surgical hose down the middle. And, despite the length of the explanation I made, a roll film washer is only an hour or two of work to build. Even if I could stick a tube down the middle of my reels, I would still want a dedicated washer to free up my tank for more processing.

However, for those who aren't into making their own equipment, and who have reels that are suitable for a tube down the middle, that's a very workable way to go.

Rinthe · Mar 23, 2010

Greg Davis said:
Yes. Without it, the wash times are much longer. For example, Kodak states that a 5 minute wash with one change of water is all that is necessary when a Hypo Clearing agent is used, but a 20-30 minute wash is necessary without a Hypo Clearing agent.

i'm not talking about washing with a washer. is hypo clear needed for the ilford washing method?

removed account4 · Mar 23, 2010

you can use anything, a food storage container, plexi/metal cube, fish tank ...
.. the main thing is it just needs to be able to hold water and be syphoned / dumped.

a surgical hose ? any spigot will work ..

have fun
john

removed account4 · Mar 23, 2010

Rinthe said:
i'm not talking about washing with a washer. is hypo clear needed for the ilford washing method?

hi rinthe

you always have wash with water !
usually the steps are :

( fixer, rinse, fixer ) rinse, hypo clear, final wash ...

have fun
john

Rinthe · Mar 23, 2010

ok i meant if i don't use one of those washers that fills from the bottom and use the ilford washing method (fill, invert 5 times, dump, fill, invert 10 times etc.). would hypo clear still help with the process?

RalphLambrecht · Mar 23, 2010

Rinthe said:
ok i meant if i don't use one of those washers that fills from the bottom and use the ilford washing method (fill, invert 5 times, dump, fill, invert 10 times etc.). would hypo clear still help with the process?

Yes.

Applying a washing-aid bath prior to the final wash is standard with fiber-base print processing, and is also recommended for film processing. It makes residual fixer and its by-products more soluble and reduces the final washing time significantly.

Rick A · Mar 23, 2010

I use HCA between the third and fourth fills with the Ilford method.

Rick

Ronald Moravec · Mar 23, 2010

Fill tank 6 oz water. Invert 10 times in 30 sec. Repeat 3 more times. Do not use fix with hardener.

You don`t need no fancy washer that uses a ton of water.

film washer

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