Film stucks in reel

[Laci Toth]

AP reels from Fotoimpex are at a great price and with no tank needed to purchase. Their shipping should be flat 10 EUR to you and they have good prices on film/chemicals, just saying. Adox CHS 100 II is a great B&W film too.

What is the difference between the AP and the Paterson reels? I see that it’s easier to load the film (though I don’t have problems feeding the reel with the film) but it seems to me that from then it’s all the same. I might be not right though.

 

[Laci Toth]

Don't think bag is the problem. Don't you have developed film already? If you try it in daylight and it works, the chances of going in the bag where it won't are not good.

Yes, that’s my question also. As I said I tried it with developed film and it was all good inside and outside the bag.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Yes, that’s my question also. As I said I tried it with developed film and it was all good inside and outside the bag.

There is too little difference between developed and undeveloped film, how it feels, or how it can get messed up with moisture present.

I think this calls for that blond from CSI Miami, she might be able to figure out what's wrong, or not

 

[Laci Toth]

There is too little difference between developed and undeveloped film, how it feels, or how it can get messed up with moisture present.

I think this calls for that blond from CSI Miami, she might be able to figure out what's wrong, or not

 

[focus_on_infinity]

I started to get sticking reels recently. I soaked them in white vinegar for 30 minutes and then brushed them with a tooth brush under hot water. Everything is smooth as silk now.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

There is too little difference between developed and undeveloped film, how it feels, or how it can get messed up with moisture present.

I think this calls for that blond from CSI Miami, she might be able to figure out what's wrong, or not

Well, my new batch of students will be learning how to develop film by the end of next week. Guaranteed, I'll be recus

I started to get sticking reels recently. I soaked them in white vinegar for 30 minutes and then brushed them with a tooth brush under hot water. Everything is smooth as silk now.

Me thinks it's time to do the same here at school... That's 20 reels to clean!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

....make that close to 40, if I include the pile of backups I have!

 

[MattKing]

Film has gelatin on it.
Undeveloped film has soft gelatin on it.
Soft gelatin is sticky.
Try cleaning the reels

 

[R.Gould]

Film has gelatin on it.
Undeveloped film has soft gelatin on it.
Soft gelatin is sticky.
Try cleaning the reels

sorry Matt, Never cleaned a reel in my life, pencil every 4 or 5 films, load develop stop fixer wash final rinse and wetting agent remove film and hang up to dry, put reels aside to dry, been developing film for 60 years, and haven't had a stuck film for 59 years following above

 

[Deleted member 88956]

sorry Matt, Never cleaned a reel in my life, pencil every 4 or 5 films, load develop stop fixer wash final rinse and wetting agent remove film and hang up to dry, put reels aside to dry, been developing film for 60 years, and haven't had a stuck film for 59 years following above

OK, just many have never did pencil trick and can claim exactly same outcome.

 

[Sirius Glass]

sorry Matt, Never cleaned a reel in my life, pencil every 4 or 5 films, load develop stop fixer wash final rinse and wetting agent remove film and hang up to dry, put reels aside to dry, been developing film for 60 years, and haven't had a stuck film for 59 years following above

I clean the reels after each you. That is what is called good lab technique.

 

[pentaxuser]

So if I understand the OP correctly he has both cleaned the reel and used a pencil on it. Previous loading was no problem. He has suddenly had a film sticking problem so clearly something changed but what that is remains unclear.

He has tried developed film on the reel and that was OK. So it appears to be undeveloped film that is the problem which appears to rule out any problem with the reel.

Moisture in Budapest is not an issue. He has dry hands.

Laci, I have run out of ideas. One last try from me and I mean this in the honest sense of having nothing else to offer and not of getting annoyed with your reports of failure

Is there any possibility that you can find a dark cupboard such as a broom cupboard or windowless room and when dark attempt to load an undeveloped film. If that is not possible can you try loading with the reel under a heavy blanket when it is dark. It might even be possible with a big blanket to kneel with the blanket over your head and the bottom of it touching the ground and then trying to load the film

That way we may eliminate the problem of sweaty hands in a changing bag. I know you don't think that yours hand sweat but it can be surprising how quickly a changing bag can make your hands sweat

pentaxuser

 

[Laci Toth]

So if I understand the OP correctly he has both cleaned the reel and used a pencil on it. Previous loading was no problem. He has suddenly had a film sticking problem so clearly something changed but what that is remains unclear.

He has tried developed film on the reel and that was OK. So it appears to be undeveloped film that is the problem which appears to rule out any problem with the reel.

Moisture in Budapest is not an issue. He has dry hands.

Laci, I have run out of ideas. One last try from me and I mean this in the honest sense of having nothing else to offer and not of getting annoyed with your reports of failure

Is there any possibility that you can find a dark cupboard such as a broom cupboard or windowless room and when dark attempt to load an undeveloped film. If that is not possible can you try loading with the reel under a heavy blanket when it is dark. It might even be possible with a big blanket to kneel with the blanket over your head and the bottom of it touching the ground and then trying to load the film

That way we may eliminate the problem of sweaty hands in a changing bag. I know you don't think that yours hand sweat but it can be surprising how quickly a changing bag can make your hands sweat

pentaxuser

Yes, I can do that but I don’t want to sacrifice a roll so I need to wait for the next time I finished it.

 

[focus_on_infinity]

I can't see doing the pencil trick. Why would you put something insoluble in your developer? Seems like you'd end up with dust or scratches on the negative.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I can't see doing the pencil trick. Why would you put something insoluble in your developer? Seems like you'd end up with dust or scratches on the negative.

Why use the pencil on the reels? Because it works. It does not cause dust or scratches. Try it, you will like it.

 

[Hatchetman]

I've tried the pencil thing. Certainly didn't hurt anything, but I'm not sure it helped....

 

[Nige]

hold the reels gently, with your finger tips if possible.

I agree with this but I am not slow with the ratcheting motion. I find a light touch but swift motion has less chance of fouling. If I do have one stop loading, I hopefully have a light enough that my fingers slip along the reel rather than crumpling the film. I find I can push a 20exp film in without using any ratcheting at all, that never works for long films though.

When I was using a change bag, I tried taking the ball bearings out and using my thumbs on the edge of the film to act as the anti-reverse feature. I recall that seemed to work ok but make sure you've got clean hands if you try this.

Thankfully I don't have to deal with that change bag anymore (except on road trips trying to load 4x5 holders!)

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hi everyone,

Lately I’ve issues loading 35mm film in Paterson tank system 4. I’ve loaded countless rolls without any problems and it’s the third roll I consider give it to a lab to do it for me. I just don’t know why I failed to succeed.
It’s just getting harder and harder to turn and then the film just stucks approx. half way and it spits out the film where the metal balls are.
As I have a one reel tank and a three reel tank version I could try it with different reels with no success. Everytime it was the same.
I use a large changing bag and I thought it might be the tight space which could twist the negs and it somehow causes this. But why now? Why not two months ago or a year ago? I’ve also done that I stood up so the bag was hanging from my arm and there was enough space inside the bag for the reel just like how I’d do in a darkroom. All the same, just stucks and that’s it.
I shaked the reel and checked the outer parts if the film would stuck somewhere so I could move it just by tapping it a bit but no.
Then where the strip begins I cut pieces out so it was rather a triangle then a rectangle shape so to avoid the possibility to stuck again because I thought that it might be the side of the strip. Nothing helped.
I tested it with developed negs and it was all fine. I put this already developed film in the changing bag to simulate the same situation and it was all fine. I’ve done it approx. 3-4 times without any probs.
The I tried it with the neg I’m about to develop and it was again no success.
Is there any difference between the developed and the just exposed neg that affects something? I mean the developed neg is fixed and there might be something different (I don’t know what) like the plastic strip becomes harder after it has been developed so it’s easier to load in the reel, but it doesn’t seem likely. Or I don’t know I’m just blindly guessing.
I’ve read on forums that if the reel is not completely dry it can produce this phenomena. But my reels are bone dry.
I’ve also heard that I should try running a sharp pencil around the groves of the reel and the graphite from the pencil lead ''greases'' the groves of the reel and film slides in very easily. I haven’t tried this.
I’ve also read that I should get a metal reel and problem is gone which seems okay and probably I will go with that if that’s true but still what is this? Why I succeeded so many times and what’s wrong now?

the reels must be really bone dry or this will happen. after processing and cleaning, leave them drying overnight, knock them on a towel and blow dry them before next use.

 

[Wisner]

Photo-Flo, color chemistry and many other things can and will build up on plastic reels. On this site and many are suggestions on how to fix the build up, for me they just have not worked. below is what has worked for me, I hesitate because of the use of acids. READ CAREFULLY.

I hesitate to place this in an open forum as what I am about to state can be a bit dangerous. I have had a Jobo processor for decades, I use it for color film only. Over the years the white 1500 reels become very, very stained and at times very hard to impossible to load. I have a box of about 50 reels that I was about to throw out. I have been a photographer for the last 60 years, I have tried everything suggested on this site and many others to clean my Jobo reels with absolutely no success, therefore my reels were headed for the trash.

Please, if you have no experience with ACIDS DO NOT DO THIS, do not do this in an enclosed darkroom, only do this OUTSIDE, with NO WIND. Once again, if not comfortable with acids DO NOT DO THIS.

I have pool, as I was about to throw my expensive reels out I saw an empty box of muriatic acid in the trash, and thought, why not, it can't make the reels any worse. Muriatic acid is nothing more than dilute hydrochloric acid, approximately 29-31%, if memory serves. I set up a table outside, NO WIND, SPLASH GOGGLES ON, not dust goggles, FACE SHIELD ON, GLOVES ON, APRON ON, then diluted the muriatic acid by 50% with regular tap water, then poured the diluted muriatic acid in a Jobo 1500 film tank, put one reel on a Jobo core and gently placed the reel in the tank, waited 15 minutes. The very stained dark reel turned pure white, washed the reel, dried the reel and then loaded a scrap roll of film on the reel. Magically the film loaded as if I had a brand new reel. I then did the same to all of my other 49 reels. One year later, no damage to any reels that I can see.

Once again, anyone reading this, if you aren't completely sure of handling acids, in this case, muriatic acid, standard pool acid, or won't take the correct safety precautions, then just buy new reels, or try the suggested remedies in the treads above. If the acid is done in a darkroom, the fumes will absolutely cause you to cough your shoes out, if this gets in your eyes nothing good will come of it. We all handle photo chemistry on a daily basis, acid is dangerous, take all necessary precautions.

 

[R.Gould]

I clean the reels after each you. That is what is called good lab technique.

In 59n years it has NEVER made any difference to my processing, both professionally or ans an amateur, and by far I am not alone, there are many more, maybe not on this site, but many many more photographers over my lifetime that follow my practice than follow yours

 

[R.Gould]

OK, just many have never did pencil trick and can claim exactly same outcome.

To my mind this thread is now getting to the point of a joke, the OP asked for help, many of us have given help, now it is a case i do this and i don't do this, what works for many like me doesn't please many others, I am out

 

[Deleted member 88956]

To my mind this thread is now getting to the point of a joke, the OP asked for help, many of us have given help, now it is a case i do this and i don't do this, what works for many like me doesn't please many others, I am out

Or it is now about pencil or not? I've never heard of pencil until I read this thread. Likely because I've had no problems once I started my own routine. So it is not about pencil way or no way.

And I will say this too: reels must be cleaned/washed well after every use. I don't know how people do it, I use them to wash film until it is ready for final rinse and hanging, so in the process wash the reels quite well and not much left to do to call them clean for next time. Keeping reels clean is far more important then pencil/no pencil argument. I don't doubt it works for you, it's just that it was not needed for many others, ever.

In addition, reel wear. Over time grooves get not necessarily dirty, but rough on surface, which attracts chemicals and dirt making washing them increasingly harder. At some point reel has to go, but for in home use, in a typical low volume development, this is many years before material gets damaged to the point of causing loading problems.

 

[R.Gould]

Until you try it my way how can you tell me that I am wrong, same as I have not tried it your way and I am not telling you that your way is wrong, as far as reels go, I am using reels that are 40 years old, apart from washing the film in the reels nothing else is done, film out and put aside ton dry, every so often pencil around the groves, film slips in, I don't scrub them with toothbrush's Ect, never have and never will as after 59 years of not bothering, and getting good films, I can't see the point, after a professional photographer in 1960 taught me the trick, I found more photographers did it my way and were happy than were not, but so what who really cares, maybe it an American thing compared to a Jersey, or British thing, but 3 pages on how to load a film into a reel, crazy, and it seems to me everyone has a different idea, so tell my WHY you should do more than wash the film in the reels, what difference does it make to the film in the long run, ? and over here a lot of people do the same thing as I do, and have no problems, and don't talk about reels having problems with heavy use, when I was working full time, and I only finally stopped working completely this year, I have been known to develop 40n to 50n films in a week, and I am still using these Paterson reels today, and that is without cleaning,just rinse wetting agent and dry, pencil now and then, I have even loaded film into damp reels when I have been pressed, again, following, lets say, the Jersey method, and no film getting stuck,in the 60's, when I became a pro photographer, black and whuite was king, and we all in the trade followed the same method, and I am still using these same reels today, no problems withb the ball bearings, no films stuck, for 59 years, so could your cleaning and scrubbing of reels be causing some people more problems than they arte solving, it works for me and and many more British photographers than it doesn't work for, all I can advse is before you comment in such a negative way try it, you may be surprised, and remember, 60 years ago, when just starting as a boy of 10 I TRIED IT YOUR WAY, every reel was cleaned, white as snow, cleaned with an old toothbrush, I didn't use a changing bag, they were not around then, did it all in the darkroom,reels were dried with a old hair dryer, and EVERY TIME I loaded a film it was taking 15 or 20 minutes,no matter how careful I was the film stuck, and I am talking Kodak film nhere, would stick, 35mm or 120, ( new folders family presents) and I was ruining more film than I was printing, until I was taught the pencil trick by a Professional photographer, I will never forget his words, never mind cleaning the reels so carefully, iot makes no difference to the film, I have not ''cleaned'' a reel since, it made no difference to my fillme, and my films have never stuck since

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Untill you try it my way how can you tell me that I am wrong, same as I have not tried it your way and I am not telling you that your way is wrong, as far as reels go, I am using reels that are 40 years old, apart from washing the film in the reels nothing else is done, film out and put aside ton dry, every so often pencil around the groves, film slips in, I don't scrub them with toothbrush's Ect, never have and never will as after 59 years of not bothering, and getting good films, I can't see the point, after a professional photographer in 1960 taught me the trick, I found more photographers did it my way and were happy than were not, but so what who really cares, maybe it an American thing compared to a Jersey, or British thing, but 3 pages on how to load a film into a reel, crazy

Not once have I said you were wrong, including in my last post, nor am I going to try it. Never had a problem doing what I've been doing, no pencil. This isn't about shaken or stirred either.

 

[BrianShaw]

This isn't about shaken or stirred either.

There is plenty of opinion supporting/refuting the science of shaken v stirred too!