Film stucks in reel

[Laci Toth]

The humidity is in the air! Plus, when your hands are in the changing bag, that adds humidity as well.
Changing bags and I have never got along well.
If you have a room you can make dark (even if only at night), then it is a good idea to load your tanks there, and then develop the film later when you can.
Just be sure to mark the tanks.
One further point - hold the reels gently, with your finger tips if possible. The harder you squeeze, the more likely you will cause the reels to bind.

I always hold the reel with my fingertips and turn it as gently as I can.
I’m thinking about the pitch dark small warehouse which belongs to the building where I work and I might use it as a loading area....

 

[Paul Ozzello]

The humidity is in the air! Plus, when your hands are in the changing bag, that adds humidity as well.
Changing bags and I have never got along well.
If you have a room you can make dark (even if only at night), then it is a good idea to load your tanks there, and then develop the film later when you can.
Just be sure to mark the tanks.
One further point - hold the reels gently, with your finger tips if possible. The harder you squeeze, the more likely you will cause the reels to bind.

+1000

It's the humidity in the changing bag. The longer you have your arms in there the worst it gets. Try developing in a cooler room with long sleeves on. I gave up on the bags especially in the summer months and use a light tight room instead - no more problems. Also store your bag open and inside out since the fabric isn't breathable.

 

[grat]

Make sure the ball bearings move freely. Your description sounds like the time I spent half an hour swearing at a reel only to discover one of the ball bearings was wedged in place and wouldn't move.

 

[Laci Toth]

+1000

It's the humidity in the changing bag. The longer you have your arms in there the worst it gets. Try developing in a cooler room with long sleeves on. I gave up on the bags especially in the summer months and use a light tight room instead - no more problems. Also store your bag open and inside out since the fabric isn't breathable.

I took out the bag and opened it to let the air move.
I also try it in a long sleeve shirt and will open the door of the room before I use the bag.
I give this a go first and if it won’t work I’ll check the room I know of and try this over there as well.

 

[Laci Toth]

Make sure the ball bearings move freely. Your description sounds like the time I spent half an hour swearing at a reel only to discover one of the ball bearings was wedged in place and wouldn't move.

Yes, I checked it when I had the first issue. I thought that one of the balls can’t move but no. Both are okay in all the reels.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I took out the bag and opened it to let the air move.
I also try it in a long sleeve shirt and will open the door of the room before I use the bag.
I give this a go first and if it won’t work I’ll check the room I know of and try this over there as well.

Do you have high humidity in Budapest? I doubt that's the case and that would be the only environment when in-bag humidity could cause a problem in such a short time of it being closed up. Everything is worth a try, but I will be surprised if this is your problem. Only saying this because I've loaded film in places that felt like inside a sauna and had no issues.

Critical to have it all dry, including hands. If you happened to be a person that naturally sweats more, might want to use lint free gloves to handle film (some will say that always should be used, but I'll leave that up to believers). The reason I do hair drier routine before film loading is to have the reels warmed up, which will automatically postpone, to say the least, any moisture build up.

 

[Laci Toth]

Do you have high humidity in Budapest? I doubt that's the case and that would be the only environment when in-bag humidity could cause a problem in such a short time of it being closed up. Everything is worth a try, but I will be surprised if this is your problem. Only saying this because I've loaded film in places that felt like inside a sauna and had no issues.

Critical to have it all dry, including hands. If you happened to be a person that naturally sweats more, might want to use lint free gloves to handle film (some will say that always should be used, but I'll leave that up to believers). The reason I do hair drier routine before film loading is to have the reels warmed up, which will automatically postpone, to say the least, any moisture build up.

No, Budapest is not humid at least not in winter. The flat where I live also not as warm, I like it when it’s a bit colder so I don’t have to turn up the heating and also keep my head clearer.
I’m a skinny person and my hands are also rather dry than sweaty.
I’d be a bit surprised if humidity would be the cause as I only encountered with this problem approx. 2 weeks ago but not during the summer months when the temperature can go as up as 39-41c degrees in shades and I never had a problem.
I’ve to give a try to all of the suggestions and will see.

 

[russell_w_b]

Take a sharpened soft pencil, run it around the groves of the reel and load the film,

I've just started doing this and it really does make a difference! I've had film stick in the past to the point of crinking the odd negative, so I had to do something. Inconsistent, though. Hitherto I just used to lube the ball bearings with a soft pencil. I noticed after I washed my reel that graphite marks were still present. Do you need to do the pencil thing each time you use the reel or just every so-often? I used to use hot soapy water for washing my stuff afterwards and let the reels dry naturally on the window sill. Now I just use hot water.

Check the point doesn't break off and get stuck in the grooves too!
--

Regds,

R.

 

[otto.f]

Hi everyone,

Lately I’ve issues loading 35mm film in Paterson tank system 4. I’ve loaded countless rolls without any problems and it’s the third roll I consider give it to a lab to do it for me. I just don’t know why I failed to succeed.
It’s just getting harder and harder to turn and then the film just stucks approx. half way and it spits out the film where the metal balls are.
As I have a one reel tank and a three reel tank version I could try it with different reels with no success. Everytime it was the same.
I use a large changing bag and I thought it might be the tight space which could twist the negs and it somehow causes this. But why now? Why not two months ago or a year ago? I’ve also done that I stood up so the bag was hanging from my arm and there was enough space inside the bag for the reel just like how I’d do in a darkroom. All the same, just stucks and that’s it.
I shaked the reel and checked the outer parts if the film would stuck somewhere so I could move it just by tapping it a bit but no.
Then where the strip begins I cut pieces out so it was rather a triangle then a rectangle shape so to avoid the possibility to stuck again because I thought that it might be the side of the strip. Nothing helped.
I tested it with developed negs and it was all fine. I put this already developed film in the changing bag to simulate the same situation and it was all fine. I’ve done it approx. 3-4 times without any probs.
The I tried it with the neg I’m about to develop and it was again no success.
Is there any difference between the developed and the just exposed neg that affects something? I mean the developed neg is fixed and there might be something different (I don’t know what) like the plastic strip becomes harder after it has been developed so it’s easier to load in the reel, but it doesn’t seem likely. Or I don’t know I’m just blindly guessing.
I’ve read on forums that if the reel is not completely dry it can produce this phenomena. But my reels are bone dry.
I’ve also heard that I should try running a sharp pencil around the groves of the reel and the graphite from the pencil lead ''greases'' the groves of the reel and film slides in very easily. I haven’t tried this.
I’ve also read that I should get a metal reel and problem is gone which seems okay and probably I will go with that if that’s true but still what is this? Why I succeeded so many times and what’s wrong now?

I stepped over to AP daylight tanks for two reasons. The reels have a larger and easier to feel mouth to slide your film in. The films do not stuck in the reels. Both things became a nuisance for me in Patterson tanks from about the last ten years. AP tanks are cheap too.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I stepped over to AP daylight tanks for two reasons. The reels have a larger and easier to feel mouth to slide your film in. The films do not stuck in the reels. Both things became a nuisance for me in Patterson tanks from about the last ten years. AP tanks are cheap too.

+1 to AP/Kaiser reels, available also from Fotoimpex. There is a video clip on that page to see.

I got them mainly for 120 film as wide ramps help a lot with lining up entry point for the much thinner base material used these days.

 

[Paul Ozzello]

Do you have high humidity in Budapest? I doubt that's the case and that would be the only environment when in-bag humidity could cause a problem in such a short time of it being closed up

I believe what happens is that the material of the film bag doesn't breath at all and in a short time arms and hands produce enough humidity for the film to stick to plastic reels. Stick your hands in a plastic bag and they'll be wet in no time.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I'll add that AP/Kaiser reels do feel much better overall than the Paterson's from last decade or so. The wide ramp is a feature Paterson never had, but they used to make reels from seemingly more appropriate material.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I believe what happens is that the material of the film bag doesn't breath at all and in a short time arms and hands produce enough humidity for the film to stick to plastic reels. Stick your hands in a plastic bag and they'll be wet in no time.

Changing bag is not same as plastic bag. I've used changing tent for abut 20 years now, so it's a different "arena" inside for sure, but when I'm on the go small changing bag is used with no issues. I'm not really nay saying to what you are bringing up, it is certainly possible.

We just know that moisture can kill an otherwise promising film loading session

 

[R.Gould]

I've just started doing this and it really does make a difference! I've had film stick in the past to the point of crinking the odd negative, so I had to do something. Inconsistent, though. Hitherto I just used to lube the ball bearings with a soft pencil. I noticed after I washed my reel that graphite marks were still present. Do you need to do the pencil thing each time you use the reel or just every so-often? I used to use hot soapy water for washing my stuff afterwards and let the reels dry naturally on the window sill. Now I just use hot water.

Check the point doesn't break off and get stuck in the grooves too!
--
I do it every so often, maybe every 4 or 5 films, I was taught this trick when I was just starting in photography, around 1960'by a friend of my family who was a pro photographer, I was moaning to him one day about my problems loading film, took me 3 or 4 attempts, and some film was being ruined, he showed me the pencil trick, also, if by any chance a film does get stuck, then a very sharp tap on the top of the reel will pretty much clear it, just the top or bottom half, not the whole reel,believe me it works every time
Richard
Regds,

R.

 

[pentaxuser]

I noticed after I washed my reel that graphite marks were still present. Do you need to do the pencil thing each time you use the reel or just every so-often? I used to use hot soapy water for washing my stuff afterwards and let the reels dry naturally on the window sill. Now I just use hot water.

Check the point doesn't break off and get stuck in the grooves too!
--

Regds,

R.

Yes the graphite sticks to the reel but this is what it has to do to be effective. I have never noticed any contamination on the film. I'd imagine that after a thorough washing some of the graphite at least may be washed off but as you say a quick "turn" with the pencil is all that is required. I have never had to wash my reels since I started with the pencil

pentaxuser

 

[Laci Toth]

Okay, I’ve done the pencil trick and kept in mind all the suggestions and nothing worked.
The groves were almost black of the graphite and the film stucked again half way. The only difference was that I very slowly was able to finish the job and the film was in place but never again.
Tapping the reel when it stucked was all okay before and that was it including 35 and 120.
If it’s humidity than I’ve to skip plastic reels and go for a metal one otherwise the changing bag is completely useless and I just don’t want to get dressed and go over to this place next to where I work where there’s this light tight space (especially not on my day offs).
If it’s not humidity then I stop finding out what it is as I experiencing this for 2 weeks and I still don’t know what is the problem. It wasn’t a problem neither during the summer when humidit is was higher nor last winter and I never faced with this.
I’ve just checked this though:
https://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/film...ore_for_paterson_jobo_tanks_35mm/29198_p.html

Do you think it will work with the Paterson system 4 tank? It says yes but I’d like to ask your opinions before I purchase one.
...and of course if we’re here what do you use for developing 35mm films?

 

[Willyekerslike]

Laci Toth,

About three years ago I started having the same problem you are having getting all the film on to the reel. I had been loading film without any problems for over fifty years prior to this. Loading Bakelite, plastic and nylon reels without incident with all types of film B&W, colour negative and slide film.

As the problem persisted I realised I only had the problem with B&W films, the colour films would go onto the reel without problems.

I first bought two new Paterson reels as my collection of reels were years old and I reasoned that perhaps they were worn and this was what was causing the problem with B&W films.

The new reels made no difference, they would not take the B&W films but would stick about two thirds of the way on. Getting a bit desperate at this point I bought two Hewes reels that would work in the Paterson tank. I had never used this type of reel before and I find it almost impossible to get a 135 film film onto the reel without two loops touching somewhere on the reel. I do have rather bad arthritis which affects my hands and that does not help.

I was in a quandary as to what to do and was talking about it with my wife who suggested I sacrifice a roll of B&W film and try load it in daylight so I could watch what was happening. A really good idea as it turns out. You see I was thinking what everybody else was thinking that it was the reel that was damp or clogged with something or that it need some graphite to lubricate the channels. The graphite did help but was not a cure as films would still jam.

Actually it was the ball bearings that were jamming up after about two thirds of the 135 film had loaded. Once the balls had been removed with a pair of needle nosed pliers the film shot onto the reel without problems and has been the case ever since, you need to use your fingers to advance the film just like you do with Jobo reels. So I have four reels I use for B&W that have been gelded,

By the way I never had problems with 120 film I reason it is just too short to cause the problem.

 

[Wallendo]

I don't refrigerate or cold-store exposed film. I generally leave it at room temperature in my house until time to develop it. I know you are allowing the film to warm up for several hours before developing, but, if problems persist, consider leaving the film at room temperature while waiting to develop it to see if that helps.

 

[Laci Toth]

Actually it was the ball bearings that were jamming up after about two thirds of the 135 film had loaded. Once the balls had been removed with a pair of needle nosed pliers the film shot onto the reel without problems and has been the case ever since, you need to use your fingers to advance the film just like you do with Jobo reels. So I have four reels I use for B&W that have been gelded,

It can happen in my case as well but then I’ve to move the film forward with my hands and for me it’s another possibility to make a mistake and I can touch the film or slightly crumple it or something.
I think I just get a metal reel and go with it.

 

[dasBlute]

Sacrifice a roll of film, do it in daylight, track it down. I've had problems with binding as rolls got older and sloppier.
Now I pay attention to how parallel I hold the reels when winding...

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Or get one of those AP reels form Fotoimpex or elsewhere, they fit Paterson tank. It's not lost money if you do get one.

Not sure if you tried warmed up reel, but a sudden change in outcome on same equipment has a cause. If you know your own handling is all the same, then it is either the reel or film misbehaving. But if film used is same as before, than it is the reel doing something different. There is no space shuttle involved here, if all else is same, reel is causing it.

 

[Laci Toth]

Or get one of those AP reels form Fotoimpex or elsewhere, they fit Paterson tank. It's not lost money if you do get one.

Not sure if you tried warmed up reel, but a sudden change in outcome on same equipment has a cause. If you know your own handling is all the same, then it is either the reel or film misbehaving. But if film used is same as before, than it is the reel doing something different. There is no space shuttle involved here, if all else is same, reel is causing it.

I’ve tried the whole process with three reels and all had done the exact same thing.
I succeeded in doing for more than a year now without any problems. I do not do anything else what I’ve done before. So I skip these reels.
You can’t buy just the AP reel without the tank here in Hungary and the whole stuff costs almost as much as a steel reel which also fits in a Paterson tank.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I’ve tried the whole process with three reels and all had done the exact same thing.
I succeeded in doing for more than a year now without any problems. I do not do anything else what I’ve done before. So I skip these reels.
You can’t buy just the AP reel without the tank here in Hungary and the whole stuff costs almost as much as a steel reel which also fits in a Paterson tank.

AP reels from Fotoimpex are at a great price and with no tank needed to purchase. Their shipping should be flat 10 EUR to you and they have good prices on film/chemicals, just saying. Adox CHS 100 II is a great B&W film too.

 

[Laci Toth]

Sacrifice a roll of film, do it in daylight, track it down. I've had problems with binding as rolls got older and sloppier.
Now I pay attention to how parallel I hold the reels when winding...

I don’t know if I want to sacrifice a film and do it in daylight because I then have to do it it the changing bag and the circumstance will change. When I’ve done it with already developed film all was fine, outside of the bag and inside of the bag.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I don’t know if I want to sacrifice a film and do it in daylight because I then have to do it it the changing bag and the circumstance will change. When I’ve done it with already developed film all was fine, outside of the bag and inside of the bag.

Don't think bag is the problem. Don't you have developed film already? If you try it in daylight and it works, the chances of going in the bag where it won't are not good.