Film speed vs handheld night shots

[George Mann]

What speed of b&w film does one need to successfully shoot a variety of lit scenes at night handheld?

 

[grat]

I would be reluctant to try anything slower than 1/30th of a second handheld, and even then, that's going to take some decent technique to avoid blurred shots.

Unless you're shooting 3200 speed film with a lot of hope and optimism, I would think aperture and technique outweigh film speed.

If a monopod and a neck strap are an option, you can build a pretty stable triangle.

 

[removed account4]

do you have something to lean against ? do you have a rope attached to your tripod socket to step on ? much experience holding still ?

 

[ic-racer]

I was surprised at this one. Hp5 hand-held 1/30 f2. The print is excellent. Nikon N75; very little camera shake with that one.

 

[George Mann]

I have both a monopod (inconvenient), and lots of experience in trying to hold still.

I was thinking of using Delta 3200 handheld. Is it realistic?

 

[revdoc]

"At night" covers a huge range of conditions. An overcast, moonless night in the desert is pretty different to a brightly lit stage in a live venue. It might help to narrow this down a bit.

My own experience is limited to well-lit city streets and the occasional live show, so take this as possibly irrelevant to you. I've used a number of fast films, but overall, 400ISO has been fast enough from f/1.8 to f/4. I don't mind if I under expose, because letting the shadows drop to black complements the night-time atmosphere. (Note that pushing won't change shadow detail, because pushing doesn't change film speed. If you need more shadow detail, you'll need to use a faster film.)

It's all about what you expect. I'm happy with grain, shallow depth of field, black shadows and some camera movement; if that's not what you want, you'll probably want to take a different approach.

 

[George Mann]

I photograph lit subjects. F4 would be the minimum aperture.

 

[JPD]

I pushed Tri-X to 800 and took night shots at a train station long ago, and I remember that I used 1/8 sec, but can't remember the aperture... The station was well lit.

Yes, I think Delta 3200 would be a good choice, and use it at that speed.

As revdoc says, the conditions can have a huge range depending on the light. Some negatives may show camera shake, some not.

 

[Pioneer]

f8 @ 1/10s Ilford D3200
Leaf shutter handheld. Leaf shutters are much easier to hold relatively steady at low shutter speeds but this is pushing it as far as my abilities are concerned. I certainly wouldn't want to expect anything like this with a focal plane shutter. YMMV

 

[koraks]

I was thinking of using Delta 3200 handheld.

Let me put it this way: if Delta3200 doesn't cut it, nothing else will.

The examples shown in this thread, despite their subjective and perhaps artistic merits, show that it's an uphill battle to begin with. Give it a try; if it works out, more power to you. If it doesn't...reconsider the tripod thing.

Btw, the above might suggest I disapprove of even trying. Not the case; of course I can't resist the temptation from time to time. The result is usually disappointing, that's all. Here's one that 'turned out':

Street lights, October 2016, Paris, around 10pm or so I think.
HP5+, probably underexposed by a stop so effectively 800, exposure would have been something like 1/10 @ f/2 with a 35mm IS (so with stabilization...) Developed in D76, scan of film. The wet print tucked away in an album somewhere is considerably less grainy of course.

 

[Helge]

Small pocketable tripods are heaven sent. Supporting your camera on something solid (with your hand or fabric in between to not scratch it to hell) is also key.

It’s helpful to remember that it is rotation around the X and Y axis that is most detrimental to sharpness. Not so much minor shifting or rotation around the axis that goes through the lens.

EV 1 or 2 is probably the limit of what you should attempt to shoot on handheld with a normal lens with 1600 rated film.
It gives you a speed of one 15nth of a second @ f1.4.
Over 1600 in very low light (invariably most often very contrasty light) will give you not only empty shadows but also empty mid-tones.
3200 can work for fast tele shot in daylight and in low but diffuse indoors light (EV 6 or 5).

 

[Agulliver]

There are a number of factors, as pointed out...maximum aperture. It also depends on what you are photographing, how it is lit, whether anything is moving and if you require moving objects/people to be sharp or not. Consider how steady your hands are, what camera body you will be using and how well you can steady it in your hands....consider if there might be a wall, tree, vehicle to lean/rest against or even to place the camera on top of.

I would loosely recommend Ilford HP5+ pushed to 1600 if f4 is your largest aperture. Or Tri-X if it's cheaper where you are. If you can reliably hand hold slower shutter speeds, you can shoot those at box speed or any other 400 ISO film if there's some light about, eg strong moonlight or street lights. I can hand hold reliably to 1/10 second and I still often use 800 or 1600 ISO at night time.

 

[pentaxuser]

I have both a monopod (inconvenient), and lots of experience in trying to hold still.

I was thinking of using Delta 3200 handheld. Is it realistic?

It might depend on what EI you set but at 3200 and wider apertures most night shots would be fine

pentaxuser

 

[Helge]

It might depend on what EI you set but at 3200 and wider apertures most night shots would be fine

pentaxuser

Depends entirely on the type of lighting.
A street scene could very well be a few edges and dots.
An evenly lit, but murky bar, maybe...

 

[runswithsizzers]

According to the Light Values Chart on <this site> "night scenes" are going to range from around EV 3 or 4 (Floodlighted buildings, monuments, fountains) up to about EV 8 (Times Square at night, Store windows at night). Looking at the Exposure Values Chart on the same page, you can see what shutter speeds and apertures are indicated for each EV light value. That chart displays results up to only ISO 1600, but you can easily calculate what would be needed for ISO 3200.

Looking at f/5.6, for example, at ISO 1600, then shutter speeds are expected to range from around 1/8th sec at EV 4 up to about 1/125th sec at EV 8. For ISO 3200 you can double those shutter speeds.

What shutter speeds are likely to give sharp results when the camera is hand-held? That is going to be determined by your focal length and ability - you will need to determine that by testing.

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

This will have to come from your own discipline and practice. I’ve shot many iso 100 films (B&W and slides) at < 1/15 s and have got good results. This is something I have been practicing for a year and occasionally can pull off a 1 s handheld exposure. If you’re like me and dislikes lugging a tripod around, then start slowly from 1/30 s and go lower from there. Or, like others have said, just get higher sensitivity films.

 

[pentaxuser]

A great shot, Dan. The shadows make this one what it is. I'll bet he is quite cuddly on a sunny afternoon

pentaxuser

 

[Helge]

According to the Light Values Chart on <this site> "night scenes" are going to range from around EV 3 or 4 (Floodlighted buildings, monuments, fountains) up to about EV 8 (Times Square at night, Store windows at night). Looking at the Exposure Values Chart on the same page, you can see what shutter speeds and apertures are indicated for each EV light value. That chart displays results up to only ISO 1600, but you can easily calculate what would be needed for ISO 3200.

Looking at f/5.6, for example, at ISO 1600, then shutter speeds are expected to range from around 1/8th sec at EV 4 up to about 1/125th sec at EV 8. For ISO 3200 you can double those shutter speeds.

What shutter speeds are likely to give sharp results when the camera is hand-held? That is going to be determined by your focal length and ability - you will need to determine that by testing.

It depends entirely on the scene. A daylight scene and a night scene where the film has been given the same average exposure will come put radically different. That is where matrix metering and careful manual metering and just plain experience comes in handy. And also a clear idea of how you want the scene to look.
Electron holes will relapse same as with LIRF causing non existing shadows. Delta 3200 is probably the fastest film there is with a real rating of 1000 to 1200, with HP5 a close second or even superior in some senses.
TMAX 400 is a close third and by far the finest grained.
I really don't know where TMAX 3200 fits in. I just know that TMAX 400 pushed to 800, which is where TMAX 3200 real speed is normally deemed to lie, looks better than the supposedly faster film.

TLRs with the heft and neck strap is probably the best "handheld" medium format camera. The human hand is really not in any way good at holding anything really still. Your body core is however not bad. Your chest and stomach is not bad support points for a camera.

 

[George Mann]

Well, it looks like I will be using HP5 do to its better reversal performance when pushed.

dr5 rates Delta 3200 at no higher than 800.

 

[Paul Howell]

No experience with Delta, I shoot Tmax 3200 at 1200, 3200 and 6400 as 1 and a bit stop push and 6400 as 2 and half stop push in Tmax or DDX. At 3200 some shadow details, none at all at 6400. Depending on how lit the subject is, at 6400 should be able to shoot at 1/30 to 1/60 at F2.

 

[Pioneer]

A great shot, Dan. The shadows make this one what it is. I'll bet he is quite cuddly on a sunny afternoon

pentaxuser

Thanks.

The actual stuffed Polar Bear is inside the Casino itself, which is currently closed for renovation. Pandemics were a bit tough on some of the smaller Casinos.

 

[faberryman]

I know that some photographers are real studs and can shoot handheld for like 8 second exposures. My own experience is that at 1/30th it is iffy, and below 1/30th it is a prayer. I would rather have a sharp image using a high ISO film (or processing) than a blurred image on a finer grain film, unless of course I intended the image to show motion or whatever. I guess I am bourgeois. It just depends on what you want. Personally, I would start with Kodak T-MAX P3200 or Ilford Delta 3200. Then if it turns out you are using high shutter speeds and/or small apertures you can walk your way back down the ISO ladder.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I have both a monopod (inconvenient), and lots of experience in trying to hold still.

I was thinking of using Delta 3200 handheld. Is it realistic?

Yes. I did hand held night shots in Tokyo with said film at EI 3200. That said, Tokyo has A LOT of light at night...

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

Well, it looks like I will be using HP5 do to its better reversal performance when pushed.

dr5 rates Delta 3200 at no higher than 800.

If you are doing B&W reversal for night shots then I would recommend to add +1 to your exposure.

 

[Pioneer]

Let me put it this way: if Delta3200 doesn't cut it, nothing else will.

The examples shown in this thread, despite their subjective and perhaps artistic merits, show that it's an uphill battle to begin with. Give it a try; if it works out, more power to you. If it doesn't...reconsider the tripod thing.

Btw, the above might suggest I disapprove of even trying. Not the case; of course I can't resist the temptation from time to time. The result is usually disappointing, that's all. Here's one that 'turned out':

Street lights, October 2016, Paris, around 10pm or so I think.
HP5+, probably underexposed by a stop so effectively 800, exposure would have been something like 1/10 @ f/2 with a 35mm IS (so with stabilization...) Developed in D76, scan of film. The wet print tucked away in an album somewhere is considerably less grainy of course.

I like this shot a lot. Very nicely done.