Silver "good for delivery" bars are 99.9% pure, and nominally 1000 oz troy. This is what you see quoted as spot silver. Right now spot silver is at $17.50 / ozt. Right now to buy 1 -10 oz generic bullion silver, ie a Silvertowne bar you will be paying a premium of about $3/ozt over spot.The big sticky thread on Silver Recovery has 176 (!!) posts, but the last is dated 2017. I just checked, and silver now sells for US $10 per "Troy ounce." (approx 31 gms.) If I expect to process about 50-100 rolls a year, is it economical at all to set up some kind of silver recovery system? Are there designs for low-cost home made recovery systems? Steel wool? Something else?
If it matters, I have lots of extra 5V and 12V DC output chargers from various consumer electronics and computer devices.
If I expect to process about 50-100 rolls a year, is it economical at all to set up some kind of silver recovery system?
Guys, Thanks. It sounds like I should save the used fixer, and take it to a Hazardous Waste Facility, IF they will even accept soda bottles with used fixer.Labs are required to treat waste effluent to keep silver out of the environment.
The good old days, Xray and graphic arts labs produced huge amounts of waste, recycling the silver from mountains of old Xray films was a viable business, especially in large cities.
Color films are left without any silver, one can only imagine what was recovered from processing movie prints for distribution.
In my opinion, the 50 to 100 films a year is too low a volume for silver recovery.
Labs are required to treat waste effluent to keep silver out of the environment.
The good old days, Xray and graphic arts labs produced huge amounts of waste, recycling the silver from mountains of old Xray films was a viable business, especially in large cities.
Color films are left without any silver, one can only imagine what was recovered from processing movie prints for distribution.
Hi, well sure, if you're talking about the "metallic replacement" (steel/iron wool) cartridges, yeah, this would be a problem for them.
The silver magnet is different, though. It's basically a very-low current electrolytic unit that electroplates the silver on its inside. With something like this you should be able to turn it on and off at will, use it whenever you feel like it, etc., with no detriment. The only real problem is collecting enough silver to pay for it. Not that IT has a problem recovering silver; it's just that the photographer has to shoot enough film to "feed it" the silver.
One has to decide for themselves what's worth it to them. My understanding is that the community hazardous waste materials are incinerated. Presumably the residual silver goes into a landfill. If one uses a silver magnet, at least there is a chance of it being recycled. (Whatever is collected inside is metallic silver that doesn't disappear; it's just a matter of getting enough to be worth the refining fees.)
Labs are required to treat waste effluent to keep silver out of the environment.
That is correct. I don't try to recover my waste. I put into a disposal barrel that I got from SafetyKleen and whenever it's full, they come take it away and give me a new empty one. It does cost money, but it saves me more time than what I'd get out of it if I tried to recover it, and I just build that cost into the cost of processing a roll. I replenish my fix so my per roll waste is pretty low.
On a cruise to Alaska around 30 years ago, I panned for gold and found a very small amount that I Scotched taped into the photo album of the trip. Back then the guy said it was worth about 75 cents. So it must be worth a few dollars around now due to inflation. I'm rich!
It's been that way in the US, lab effluents being regulated, for about 35+ years now. So nothing too new; just not well-known to people outside of commercial labs.
Something else not well-known is how nutty some of the regulated standards are. In the US each municipality makes its own laws about what will be accepted into its own "POTW," the publicly owned treatment works, aka "the sewer." The outfit where I worked once owned a large chain of one-hour labs. I was not part of that division but did see some of the effluent regulations. And I like to grouse about it once in while, which is what this post is.
Since Adrian has brought up the situation of his lab, which I presume is also in Petaluma, California, I looked online for their effluent limits. There is a page giving "discharge limits" for silver at 0.10 mg/L, that is, milligrams of silver per liter. To put this in perspective it is roughly the same ratio as if someone had tried to control the population of metro Los Angeles, about 13 million people, to within a bit over one person. It's an unusually stringent limit. (I've designed some large-lab effluent control systems that ran below 0.20 mg/L silver so I know how difficult this is.)
The Petaluma web site gives some other discharge limits: arsenic, at 0.20 mg/L, can be discharged at twice the limit of silver. Cyanide is similar, being limited to 0.26 mg/L. One might think that oh, silver DOES need to be limited that stringently, but... if one looks at EPA drinking water standards, silver is treated as a secondary pollutant with a guideline limit of 0.1 mg/L. In other words, the Petaluma discharge limit for silver is the same as the EPA drinking water standard! Imagine if they treated ALL pollutants the same, essentially you would not be able to discharge anything to the sewer unless it was safe to drink.
But back to photo processing - what does it take to meet a silver limit of 0.10 mg/L? Well, I would say it's not achievable by a normal photographer. Even taking fixer to a hazardous waste facility is not enough. Let me use C-41 processing as an example. But first let me say that effluent regulations don't allow dilution as a means of controlling pollution. So what IS dilution in the case of C-41 processing? In my view, any wash water usage beyond that specified in Kodak's Z-131 process manual can be seen as dilution. If one uses a single wash tank (as opposed to multi-stage washing with counter-current water flow) Z-131 specs about 3.3 liters of water per nominal roll.
So how does this wash water limit affect silver concentration in the effluent? Well the way that silver gets into wash water is by being carried over from a fix tank - the "dirty" film gets some of the wash water dirty. Z-131 lists some typical carry-out amounts for a processor with "efficient squeegees;" it's about 7 ml per roll. Now when one processes by hand, or in a Jobo processor for that matter, they are not generally using a squeegee after the fixer. I would estimate that the fixer carryover is roughly double the squeegeed rate, perhaps 14 ml per roll. This is disregarding what the reel carries over. Let's say that you use your fixer lightly, only letting the silver concentration rise to about 1/2 g/l. Now there is enough information to calculate the silver concentration in the wash water. It's about 2 mg/l, roughly 20 times higher than the allowable discharge limit to the Petaluma sewer system. (The calculation is to take the total amount of silver carried over, about 1/2 gram/1000 ml x 14 ml, and then divide that by the total wash water, about 3.3 liters. This calculation gives GRAMS of silver per, remember that the discharge limits are in milligrams, so multiply by 1,000.)
Thanks for bearing with me on my little rant. Perhaps it'll help explain part of the reason why there are so few smaller labs around nowadays. The expertise needed to deal with these issues can be costly for a small operation. This sort of thing is a major reason why so-called washless systems were developed. They didn't need a permit cuz there was no sewer connection. The low wash volume made it feasible to have all the waste hauled offsite by a licensed waste disposal outfit.
One other concern is Lead. So the most common way to get rid of small amounts of lead in drinking water is ion exchange, which 20 years ago was by exchange of lead with silver. So for each Pb ion (+2, or +4) removed from the water you would be putting back silver. This was done with carbon block filters compounded with an organometallic silver compound. So having a 2 mg/L, 2 microgram per milliliter Ag limit in waste water is nuts.
Skin discoloration is a cosmetic effect related to silver ingestion. This effect, called argyria, does not impair body function. It has never been found to be caused by drinking water in the United States. A standard has been set, however, because silver is used as an antibacterial agent in many home water treatment devices and so presents a potential problem which deserves attention.
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