Film photography makes a stunning comeback

[RattyMouse]

Dont believe the hype. No new 35mm, MF film camera being developed or even made by the major camera manufacturers of the past tells the truth.

The two are not connected. Look at how cheap film cameras are on the used market. Why would anyone buy a new camera when there are seriously high quality used pieces of gear for pennies on the dollar. It's almost impossible to compete against.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Photography in general is emerging from the biggest upheaval in the field since the invention of the Kodak brought photography to anyone with $1 to play with. When digital technology burst suddenly on the scene everyone held their breath -- what changes would the new technology make to imaging? It took two decades to figure that out and in the meantime investors weren't investing in new production facilities to make products. Kodak and Fuji were stuck with huge production lines to satisfy the massive requirements of the old world, and not only didn't know what size their factories should be but no access to capital to build them. Now that things are beginning to settle out and it is apparent that film photography is not going to die away, and that the suppliers have some idea of what sort of market and how large that market may be, new investments can (and will) be made. Film will never grow to rival the size it was a decade or two ago, but there is still a market, it appears to be stable, and now people have some idea how to invest and make money. If there's money to be made there will be someone investing to make it.

I agree, bring on the smaller tighter organizations that can meet a smaller market and still survive.
We do not need mega companies like Canon and Epson deciding our fate, they will adjust and make more stable offerings if needed.

 

[farmersteve]

The two are not connected. Look at how cheap film cameras are on the used market. Why would anyone buy a new camera when there are seriously high quality used pieces of gear for pennies on the dollar. It's almost impossible to compete against.

Depends on what you want in a camera. If you want another all manual Leica like camera, why bother with something new. But I would love to see some of the technology that we are seeing in digital cameras applied to film cameras. I would've love to see a Contax G3 or Xpan III... Also, all those cameras will wear out eventually (except Leicas of course!).

 

[ic-racer]

When did it go away, did I miss something?

 

[Luis-F-S]

When did it go away, did I miss something?

You were too busy fixing the 1970's Durst electronics!

 

[David Brown]

I am absolutely mystified by negativity about the future of photography.

Same here!

I have a contact to sell my house. We are downsizing. I will loose my large dedicated darkroom. It is likely that I will have a “downsized” darkroom in our new “downsized” house – wherever it may be down the road. I have considered that I might not have a darkroom again, and it’s alright.

However, I have a strong motivation for building another since starting this Fall I will be busy developing a new set of classes and workshops teaching darkroom! A new facility is being built and I’ve been asked to develop the first part of the curriculum.

One of the realizations that I came to in revising my existing darkroom teaching materials for these classes is that we have reached a point where the discussion is no longer about going from film to digital, but now students are going from digital to film.

I really tire of the digital/film comparisons and pontifications about which is better. It’s just silly. They are two different, and both perfectly valid mediums. But even more so, I really, really am distressed by the pessimism now displayed on this forum (I’ve been a member almost since the beginning). The attitudes often repeated here are inexplicable at times. Quite frankly, if there was only one reason I would want to give up film entirely, it would be other film photographers!

 

[Arctic amateur]

But I would love to see some of the technology that we are seeing in digital cameras applied to film cameras.

The last couple of generations of 35mm cameras are what you're looking for, if you're thinking of autoexposure and autofocus.

 

[Luminousoctaves]

When synthesizers went digital everyone sold their Minimoogs and bought Yamaha DX7:s and Roland D50:s. 30 years later people are dying to get their hands on the new reissue/replica of the analog Minimoog. Have patience, year 2030 Leitz will reissue their new line of Focomat enlargers (basically replicas of IIc and Ic).

 

[Ai Print]

But even more so, I really, really am distressed by the pessimism now displayed on this forum (I’ve been a member almost since the beginning). The attitudes often repeated here are inexplicable at times. Quite frankly, if there was only one reason I would want to give up film entirely, it would be other film photographers!

Despite my new-ish user name, I have been here a long time too and I agree, it's truly disappointing at times at how negative the over 40 crowd is on here. But I am trying to be transparent, respectful and not let the negativity get me down. I am also making fine art prints up to 20x24 in possibly the smallest, most cramped and lack of ventilation darkroom you have ever seen. My wife and I have to save up 200-300K just for a *down payment* to buy a home where we live that would be large enough to house a proper darkroom, it super-duper sucks but I have no choice but to stick it out, try to have a good attitude.

Not one of the faculty members at our program and certainly not one of the students has this kind of attitude about the *AMAZING* fact that we still have a good amount and variety of film and papers left for the niche we are in. Coupled with all the new ways of sharing images, co-mingling processes and amazing prices of seriously great film gear, I hear nothing but enthusiasm and vigor from people who are really taking to film.

It's completely baffling to me as to why in 2016 with all that we can *still* get in film and paper and at prices no more than directly commensurate with inflation, there is constant pissing and moaning from some people.

The article is spot on to me, I think it is truly stunning in a good way we get to have the choices in photography we do today.

 

[Darko Pozar]

Let's not allow pessimism to get in the way of our "ART". Let's not be dissuaded by "progress" and only focus on what "WE" want to do!
As the world is constantly changing, it is allowing us with more opportunity for a point of difference. This is exciting!!!

BTW New analog cameras are still being produced by Nikon, Leica, Toyo, Cambo, Fujifilm, Lomography, Zero Image, and Polaroid...

 

[AgX]

Dont believe the hype. No new 35mm, MF film camera being developed or even made by the major camera manufacturers of the past tells the truth.

I don't see much interest even at Apuggers for new camera models. Such is the least I'm worried about.

(By the way, there is nevertheless coming quite some interesting niche-stuff from a on-major source as the Lomographic Society.)

 

[AgX]

I am absolutely mystified by negativity about the future of photography.

You yourself are preoccupied with gaining and spreading knowledge. At the industry I don't see any hint at saving knowledge.
That is something that worries me.

So there is more to it than a market issue.

 

[Luminousoctaves]

I don't see much interest even at Apuggers for new camera models.

Don't forget that this is the golden age of second hand cameras. 150 years of technical evolution and perfected camera gear is available to a relatively small population of nerds around the world (that's us). And the prices are often ridiculously low... could not be better! What analog camera manufacturer can compete with this?

 

[RattyMouse]

View attachment 160951


BTW New analog cameras are still being produced by Nikon, Leica, Toyo, Cambo, Fujifilm, Lomography, Zero Image, and Polaroid...

Incorrect. Fujifilm has, sadly, ended all film camera production. The GF670 and GF670W are history, as is the Klasse series of cameras. Of course, Fujifilm makes toy Instanx cameras, but that is not what this thread is about.

Polaroid is nothing but a holding company and manufactures nothing so I'm not sure why they made your list.

 

[dwross]

You yourself are preoccupied with gaining and spreading knowledge. At the industry I don't see any hint at saving knowledge.
That is something that worries me.

So there is more to it than a market issue.

I agree that manufacturers aren't interested in much beyond the next quarter's profits. There is very much an "I am the alpha and omega" attitude to corporate planning. That is precisely why it is vital for all of us, as individuals, especially those of us who cut our teeth in the pre-digital world, to preserve some corner of history, either pure or as a hybrid with contemporary technology. The wet plate folks do this admirably, as do Pt/Pd, gum, carbon, etc. It's time for silver gelatin lovers to find a favorite film camera and go through at least a roll a week. Learn how to develop in a bathroom. Printing can come later. Negatives keep . (And, scanning is a great way to proof negs.) No need to have an Ansel Adams-scale darkroom with all bells and whistles to get started. All the better if a goodly number of photographers take up emulsion making. Making paper can be done in a bathroom darkroom, but of course, that's not for everyone. The really important thing is to find some corner of photography, dig in, and own it.

 

[Toffle]

The really important thing is to find some corner of photography, dig in, and own it.

+1 (x 1000)

Time for photographers to stop whingeing, embrace the challenges and make photographs.

 

[Wallendo]

There appears to be enough demand to keep all current manufacturers of B&W and C-41 film in business (E6 is in jeopardy). Kodak will be OK as long as the movie industry keeps shooting some film. I suspect Fuji will continue its current lines until equipment starts wearing out. After that, I doubt they will invest in new equipment. Ilford is profitable, but are they profitable enough to move their facility when their lease expires.

There are questions all around and the current list of manufacturers will not necessarily still be in the film business 10 years for now. Even if we lose some of our favorites, that will open up opportunities for those that remain. I expect B&W to be available for the rest of my lifetime, and hopefully C-41 also. Prices may be higher both for film and development, but to some extent, higher prices will encourage film production.

Our current film selection may be limited compared to the 1990's, but in retrospect, Kodak was coming out with color print films so often I never knew whether to buy Royal Gold, MAX, or HD film.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...No new 35mm...film camera being...made by the major camera manufacturers of the past.

Incorrect. Nikon continues to make and sell its F6:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/352116-USA/Nikon_1799_F6_35mm_SLR_Autofocus.html​

 

[farmersteve]

View attachment 160951

Let's not allow pessimism to get in the way of our "ART". Let's not be dissuaded by "progress" and only focus on what "WE" want to do!
As the world is constantly changing, it is allowing us with more opportunity for a point of difference. This is exciting!!!

BTW New analog cameras are still being produced by Nikon, Leica, Toyo, Cambo, Fujifilm, Lomography, Zero Image, and Polaroid...

Sorry the Nikons are either cheap crap or uber professional. Lomo is crap. I'm not a large format guy and I have several pinhole cameras. I'd like something like a contax g series being produced new. Hell even a prosumer SLR from one of the big players would be nice.

 

[farmersteve]

BTW, has anyone seen the prices people are getting for the Olympus Mju II Stylus Epic? I thought I would pick one up for a trip I am taking but forget it! http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-OLYMPUS...amera-Silver-Film-point-free-sh-/201628851780 There has to be a market for new cameras out there!

 

[RattyMouse]

Sorry the Nikons are either cheap crap or uber professional. Lomo is crap. I'm not a large format guy and I have several pinhole cameras. I'd like something like a contax g series being produced new. Hell even a prosumer SLR from one of the big players would be nice.

Buy a Canon EOS 1V or a Nikon F5......not expensive at all. My Canon 1V came to me used, but looks brand new. There's no way that Canon can compete with prices like this out on the used market.

 

[Luminousoctaves]

BTW, has anyone seen the prices people are getting for the Olympus Mju II Stylus Epic? I thought I would pick one up for a trip I am taking but forget it! http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-OLYMPUS...amera-Silver-Film-point-free-sh-/201628851780 There has to be a market for new cameras out there!

That's a crazy price! I've noticed that they have gone up lately, but prices are generally under 100 dolllars anyway. In Sweden the go for between 50 and 100 dollars. Occasionally I see the DLX-version or mints for 150-200, but they are seldom sold at that price.

Mju-II DLX on Swedish *bay Tradera:

Mju-collection on Tradera:

The problem with the Mju-II:s is that they break or malfunction sooner or later. Produced and sold in around a million copies I think (Mju-I + Mju-II) but how many working are left noone knows.

I own four of them. One is nearly broken, I have used up another three earlier. One just stopped working one day.

 

[Ai Print]

Sorry the Nikons are either cheap crap or uber professional. Lomo is crap. I'm not a large format guy and I have several pinhole cameras. I'd like something like a contax g series being produced new. Hell even a prosumer SLR from one of the big players would be nice.

It makes no sense to keep wanting what you can not have.

We are all much better off supporting those who will in the future be restoring the used cameras on the market to better than new. Think of cool colors, new smoother mechanisms that can be CNC machined from 3-D printed prototyping, etc.

I am already working with a guy in Italy to have him do this once his other camera making venture gains enough steam, and it will because he is doing totally custom work that is scalable.

Think innovatively & economically, with all the used cameras on the market it is simply too risk ridden a venture to do large scale manufacturing of film cameras now. Only niche restoration of used gear or high end / low volume custom models will make it, like the Leica M-A type 127, various large format like Chamonix, Gibellini, etc.

Feed the horse that has a chance to live instead of beating the dead one.

 

[Christopher Nisperos]

Good article. I'm glad they mentioned this:

"Herein lies the problem – digital files do not last on their own. File types come and go – even the ubiquitous JPEG format may not be readable by standard hardware in 20 or 30 years – so constant, active conversion is required to ensure the survival of an archive. Properly stored negatives, however, can last almost indefinitely, with no particular action required. They are tangible records that can be passed down through generations."

Exactly. That's a major point and one I often mention. Plus, the ollllllldest photographs will always somehow mesh with the latest imaging technology. On the contrary —ironically— sometimes the latest product improvement will preclude easy continuity of image storage (for example, when Apple changes a port design). With each design change I guess the manufacturers figure that people are going to run out and buy the next new cable or connection (or worse, a new computer!) continually and forever just to be able to have easy and continual access to their own photos? Nawww. I'd prefer a shoe box full of old photos, any day ..To wit:

I remember that when my Mom died, there came the moment when all my brothers and sisters and I gathered to 'divvy up' a few of her things. She died in my native California, and —as I live in Europe— I couldn't exactly take home the couch... But seriously, I was of course mainly interested in the family photos. Easy. Tons of them were in boxes, albums and even bags (OK, don't fault my Mom for not having been a photo conservation expert!). Photos going back to the 1940s, right their in my hand.. negatives, too. The obvious point is, I didn't need to "update" a darned thing to have immediate access . . . and to share the photos with my family I could simply scan these photos (or even PRINT the negatives!).

 

[removed account4]

Is that really a fair comparison? I think that people who shoot film cameras have a different purpose and onset (mostly) than people using their iPhones camera.

hi there

not sure why it would be a unfair comparison. people shoot cameras, no matter the type all for the same reasons ... to take pictures . its like suggesting
that 20 years ago someone used a point and shoot camera for a different reason than a leica .. its a camera, and cameras allow people record things using reflected light.
there is no difference ...