Film is not dead: Demand soars for vintage cameras in developing trend

[wblynch]

When MotoFoto came along, people could be surprised in an hour, instead of having to wait three or four days to be surprised. The downside was that people didn't forget everything they shot in an hour, so there were fewer surprises. Now, with the film revival, and most of the one hour processing places closed, we're back to getting more surprises. This just couldn't have worked out any better. Of course, you still need a phone with an alarm to tell you when to go pick up your processed film, because otherwise you might not remember that you dropped it off. Wouldn't that be a surprise.

I remember getting phone calls from labs and drug stores reminding me that my pictures have been there for 30 days and I had a few days left to pick them up before they would be trashed. Always a surprise for pictures I had completely forgotten about.

 

[Moose22]

I remember getting phone calls from labs and drug stores reminding me that my pictures have been there for 30 days and I had a few days left to pick them up before they would be trashed. Always a surprise for pictures I had completely forgotten about.

The closest modern thing is Amazonesia. When you order something online and it takes longer than a couple of days. You forgot you ordered it and it shows up...


I get stuff I drop off to dev quickly. Sometimes same day but usually the next day, and the lab is local, but I tend to hold on until I have a few rolls at a time. B&W even longer as I develop them when I have two or three rolls of the same film to do at once. So I still get the surprises, especially when I hang on to a B&W roll for a while waiting until I have a weekend to get to it.

Sometimes that's great fun, still.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The closest modern thing is Amazonesia. When you order something online and it takes longer than a couple of days. You forgot you ordered it and it shows up...


I get stuff I drop off to dev quickly. Sometimes same day but usually the next day, and the lab is local, but I tend to hold on until I have a few rolls at a time. B&W even longer as I develop them when I have two or three rolls of the same film to do at once. So I still get the surprises, especially when I hang on to a B&W roll for a while waiting until I have a weekend to get to it.

Sometimes that's great fun, still.

Last week, I ordered a memory card reader to be shipped to my daughter bought from Amazon. Just got an email from Amazon saying they transferred the shipment from Amazon to UPS because it was running late. She got it today Tuesday when she was supposed to get it Sunday after Amazon told me it would originally be delivered Monday. Confused? Me too.

Regarding film, I too wait too long a time to send it out for processing wondering if the emulsion has evaporated. Of course, it's always surprising to see the content long since forgotten what I shot.

 

[Agulliver]

A few days ago Fuji stated to expect their colour film to be in short supply.

I guess they thought there were no problems in the last two years or so...

Despite things being back to normal in terms of day to day activities for most of the world....there are still issues with supply of raw materials for many industries due to the pandemic.

Before the pandemic even hit there was a huge worldwide backlog of C41 film, especially in 135 format. That hasn't been cleared yet by the combined efforts of FujiFilm and Kodak.

 

[Henning Serger]

Even companies that sell their film in green boxes?
Good to read, and nice to see you posting here since a long time

Hello Ernst-Jan,

thank you very much for your appreciation!

Concerning your question:
We have to differentiate here:
1. Instax instant film:
Huge investments have been made by Fujifilm for years in that segment. The demand for instax film had its lowest point already in 2004 (!). It was by far the first film type that stabilized in demand, and since 2004 the demand for instax has increased. First slowly, and after some years of low to moderate growth rates the demand increased very much and instax became a global growth trend (the trend started in Asia, by the way).
In the last years Fujifilm sold in the range of 8-10 million (!!) instax cameras per year.
So meanwhile Fujifilm is selling more instax instant film cameras p.a. compared to all digital camera manufacturers combined (CIPA numbers)!
It has become a huge mass market.

2. Standard photo film (135, 120, sheet film):
We don't know in detail what investments have been done internally (production side). But we've seen e.g. several new packagings and cardbord boxes for certain films. You don't do such investments if you plan to stop production and intend to leave the market.
Same for the current Fujifilm 200 "Made in USA": Such contract with Kodak is a huge investment. It would not make any sense at all to do that if you want to "pull the plug". On the contrary that makes only sense if you want to stay in the market.
Fujifilm has also continued doing their marketing for conventional film on instagram. No interruption there.
And that Fujifilm last week had announced on their Japanese homepage that there will be supply shortages for 135 film (because of raw material supply problems and increasing demand), is also an indicator that they want to continue operation. If you would only selling remaining stocks such an announcement would not make sense.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Great to hear so. I am always positive about Fujifilm and never believed the freezer stories.

And you've been very clever in being critical concerning the "freezer stories".
Because film manufacturers do not freeze film after coating. None of the long established major film manufacturers is doing that!
Film manufacturers store their master / jumbo / parent rolls (just three different names used by different manufacturers for the same thing ) at temperatures of + 6°C to 8°C.
I've been in such cold storage rooms at my film factory visits. No freezing at all.
The lowest temperature was at one of the smallest manufacturers with + 2°C to 3°C. But there the cold storage room is also very small.

If you read online from self-proclaimed experts / armchair experts this "freezer story" then you immediately know that you have someone with no knowledge at all about film production. Someone who has never been in a film factory.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Before the pandemic even hit there was a huge worldwide backlog of C41 film, especially in 135 format. That hasn't been cleared yet by the combined efforts of FujiFilm and Kodak.

Absolutely correct:
In summer 2019 Kodak alone had global backorders in a volume of 30 (!!) million films! And Fujifilm also had several million backorders.
And during the pandemic demand for film even increased further, because people had partly more time and partly also more money (because of closed restaurants, cinemas, decreased travel opportunities).

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

And you've been very clever in being critical concerning the "freezer stories".
Because film manufacturers do not freeze film after coating. None of the long established major film manufacturers is doing that!
Film manufacturers store their master / jumbo / parent rolls (just three different names used by different manufacturers for the same thing ) at temperatures of + 6°C to 8°C.
I've been in such cold storage rooms at my film factory visits. No freezing at all.
The lowest temperature was at one of the smallest manufacturers with + 2°C to 3°C. But there the cold storage room is also very small.

If you read online from self-proclaimed experts / armchair experts this "freezer story" then you immediately know that you have someone with no knowledge at all about film production. Someone who has never been in a film factory.

Best regards,
Henning

What are the recommendations for freezing new packaged film at home? My freezer goes down to around -11 degrees Fahrenheit (-24C). Is that OK for Tmax film, Velvia, Ektahrome, etc?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

My refrigerator varies from around 41-46F (5C-8C). Maybe I should keep it there?

 

[BrianShaw]

My refrigerator varies from around 41-46F (5C-8C). Maybe I should keep it there?

If that refrigerator is being used for food, also, it should be a bit colder... between 35 and 38 degrees for optimal food storage and safety.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If that refrigerator is being used for food, also, it should be a bit colder... between 35 and 38 degrees for optimal food storage and safety.

The refrigerator running at 41F after the door has been closed a while may be packed with too much food. My freezer stays at around -7 to -11 so the compressor has to be working.

In any case, where best to keep unexposed and exposed film?

 

[Henning Serger]

My refrigerator varies from around 41-46F (5C-8C). Maybe I should keep it there?

Alan,
fresh film stored in a refrigarator with a temperature range of + 5°C - 8°C will be fine for many years.
Just some examples from my experience:

1. I got Astia 100F and Provia 400X from a friend: They were both about two years over their guarantee date and stored at room temperature.
The films delivered perfect results.

2. I've stored different color film types (reversal and negative; ISO 50/18° to 400/27°) in my fridge (temperature range +5°C to 7°C). Used them after being about 5-6 years over their guarantee date.
The films delivered perfect results.

3. Used color reversal films (mainly Fujichrome Sensia 100 III, Astia 100F and Provia 400X) which were frozen for 8-10 years:
The films delivered perfect results.

If you want to freeze film (I think it makes only sense if you have huge stock and must keep that fresh for longer than six years) it is important that you keep the films very dry: In original packagings, and that put in special, closed freezer bags (those normally used for food). That is the method I use. I also use lead bags to protect the film from natural background radiation (for those rare films with higher sensitivity which must be stored for longer times like Provia 400X).
So far it has worked very well.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Ten301]

Alan,
fresh film stored in a refrigarator with a temperature range of + 5°C - 8°C will be fine for many years.
Just some examples from my experience:

1. I got Astia 100F and Provia 400X from a friend: They were both about two years over their guarantee date and stored at room temperature.
The films delivered perfect results.

2. I've stored different color film types (reversal and negative; ISO 50/18° to 400/27°) in my fridge (temperature range +5°C to 7°C). Used them after being about 5-6 years over their guarantee date.
The films delivered perfect results.

3. Used color reversal films (mainly Fujichrome Sensia 100 III, Astia 100F and Provia 400X) which were frozen for 8-10 years:
The films delivered perfect results.

If you want to freeze film (I think it makes only sense if you have huge stock and must keep that fresh for longer than six years) it is important that you keep the films very dry: In original packagings, and that put in special, closed freezer bags (those normally used for food). That is the method I use. I also use lead bags to protect the film from natural background radiation (for those rare films with higher sensitivity which must be stored for longer times like Provia 400X).
So far it has worked very well.

Best regards,
Henning

“I also use lead bags to protect the film from natural background radiation (for those rare films with higher sensitivity which must be stored for longer times like Provia 400X).”

I’ve read somewhere (don’t remember where at the moment) that lead bags don’t prevent film from being fogged by background gamma radiation, that gamma radiation can penetrate the bags. So you feel that it has helped? I have no knowledge either way, only what I’ve read, so I’d like to hear your further input and respect your knowledge, as I have a lot of film stored in my freezer, some high speed. Thank you!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The refrigerator running at 41F after the door has been closed a while may be packed with too much food. My freezer stays at around -7 to -11 so the compressor has to be working.

In any case, where best to keep unexposed and exposed film?

I moved the thermometer away from the door and inside further. Now the temperature is 37-38F.

I'm still wondering if it's better to stick un-exposed film in the freezer at -7F to -11F vs. in a refrigerator at 38F.

 

[tom43]

I stored film even at -70 degree Celsius for many years without any damage. The lower the temperature, the lower chemical degradation processes. The film base of modern films can deal with quite cold conditions.

 

[Agulliver]

I tend to freeze Delta 3200 and TMZ along with super 8 films, because I figure the ultra high speed film might deteriorate faster than anything else.....and the super 8 film I honestly don't use very often. I've still got a roll of the old Ektachrome 100D that I bought about the time it was discontinued.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...I’ve read somewhere (don’t remember where at the moment) that lead bags don’t prevent film from being fogged by background gamma radiation, that gamma radiation can penetrate the bags...

Correct. To prevent fogging by cosmic radiation, one would need to store unexposed film someplace like this:

Underground Storage - UV&S Inc.

uvsinc.com

Kodak allegedly used an abandoned salt mine to store master rolls of TMAX 3200 for exactly this reason, although I've not seen documentation to confirm that.

 

[Pieter12]

Correct. To prevent fogging by cosmic radiation, one would need to store unexposed film someplace like this:

Underground Storage - UV&S Inc.

uvsinc.com

Kodak allegedly used an abandoned salt mine to store master rolls of TMAX 3200 for exactly this reason, although I've not seen documentation to confirm that.

Or move here: https://survivalcondo.com

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Or move here: https://survivalcondo.com

My luck when the bomb went off, the ground would collapse burying me and my entire underground condo.

 

[Pieter12]

My luck when the bomb went off, the ground would collapse burying me and my entire underground condo.

I believe they are decommissioned missile silos.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I believe they are decommissioned missile silos.

Did the Russians update their target lists?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Did the Russians update their target lists?

No the FSU does not have the money to delist silos, so you are still very much a target.

 

[markjwyatt]

My luck when the bomb went off, the ground would collapse burying me and my entire underground condo.

May not be as secure, but probably not a a Russian List. This is Albayzin, Granada, Spain, but I think I've seen similar this around St. Louis also.


Hill Home by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

 

[Huss]

May not be as secure, but probably not a a Russian List. This is Albayzin, Granada, Spain, but I think I've seen similar this around St. Louis also.


Hill Home by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

They have Hobbits in Spain AND in St Louis?

 

[markjwyatt]

They have Hobbits in Spain AND in St Louis?

Maybe in St. Louis you do nit need to be a Hobbit.

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