Film is not dead: Demand soars for vintage cameras in developing trend

[Sirius Glass]

I have always maintained that the biggest cost item for a darkroom is the space used. If one does not have the space to either set up or dedicate for a darkroom the cost of the equipment does not matter.

That's a straw man argument Sirius. Neither Drew nor I were talking about homeless unemployed people. We were talking about people with decent jobs who have roofs over their head but may not be able to set up even temporary darkrooms under those roofs.

Did you read my earlier post? If one does not have the space for a dedicated or at temporary darkroom, the cost of the equipment is irrelevant. Having the space is a problem for most interested people.

 

[Pieter12]

Also for owning a horse or collecting cars. So what?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Roger - I just got back from a nice hike, but too windy for a view camera, so wisely took the P67. But back to our earlier conversation. Homeless camps are one thing, involving a lot of addicts and schizophrenics, and can be quite dangerous (lots of fires, rapes, etc), but are inevitable in this part of the world due to our relatively mild winters. Those aren't what one sees on upscale boulevards in Palo Alto, where tidy camper-vans and small motorhomes are essentially bedrooms for tech workers.

That techie demographic also happens to be very outdoorsy; and here near the coast we not only have a milder climate, but beaches, redwoods, and gosh knows how many hundreds of miles of lovely hiking and cycling trails. A few of that crowd even have converted Benz Unimog military-style 4wd rigs with giant wheels, allegedly well over 400K apiece, and I see them parked at some of the same trailheads I go to. Those are essentially drivable ski lodges in winter. I have a backpacking buddy who tricked out his own version of that kind of thing. It even has instant hot water, a pop-out shower, and a little utility closet that serves as a darkroom. Four can sleep in it; but it's no bigger overall than an Amazon or UPS parcel delivery van. And they do stay in it during extended ski or climbing trips. But he has a real darkroom at their house here.

 

[Brendan Quirk]

I have more consistent results by using Dektol and timing the development for two minutes. That brings consistency and repeatability between prints.

Exactly.

 

[VinceInMT]

All this "magic" talk is hype. A photochemical process is science, not magic.

For YOU. Everyone has a different reaction to the process, just like they do art.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

When "magic" is used in quotes, it implies an emotional response...

It is not "magical" in any literal sense, true of course. But at least SEEMS emotionally magical to many of us, in a way that a print being squirted out of an ink jet printer never will...

I'm not sure why anyone in 2022 would react emotionally to emergence of a print, either gelatin silver in a tray of developer or inkjet from an electromechanical device, as if it were "magic." Then again, there are people who, even today, believe the earth is flat.

Perhaps self-deception is good for some peoples' psyches. At a minimum, in this case, it's good for HARMAN et al.

 

[VinceInMT]

Having room for a darkroom or any other pursuit is a matter of choice. I know. Thirty years ago I moved to another state where property values were a fraction of where I was (Southern California) and paid cash for a house that was over 3 times larger and has a room in the basement with no windows. I have never felt tied to some geographic location for any reason.

 

[VinceInMT]

The homeless are here because of the warmer weather.

Some, but not all. Here in Montana we have LOTS of homeless and it gets to -20F in February and they seem to manage year after year.

 

[VinceInMT]

I'm not sure why anyone in 2022 would react emotionally to emergence of a print….

If that were true, then entertainers billed at “magicians” would have no audience.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

For YOU. Everyone has a different reaction to the process, just like they do art.

Not surprising, since the word "art" can mean anything anyone wants it to, i.e. is meaningless. Varied reactions can be expected to meaninglessness. Humans are like that.

If that were true, then entertainers billed at “magicians” would have no audience.

The fallacy there is that those practicing darkroom printing are supposed to be the magicians, not the audience. Otherwise, they cop to self-deception.

 

[awty]

It just requires effort, some are willing to put in the effort, others aren't.
I enjoy making and fixing things myself, the less I have to deal with third parties the better.

 

[VinceInMT]

The fallacy there is that those practicing darkroom printing are supposed to be the magicians, not the audience. Otherwise, they cop to self-deception.

Maybe a more accurate word would be “wonder” as in a “sense of wonder” rather than “magic” to describe the expirience, like when looking at a sunset, an image from space, or other image that is commonly photographed. Heck, I still get a “sense of wonder” when I flick a switch on the wall and an electronic bulb lights up the room. I hope to never become so cynical that that leaves me.

 

[MattKing]

It feels magical to me - has for 50+ years.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

A reminder to those who haven't read my posts before: I've been photographing and working in my own darkroom since the 1960s, have and use film cameras from 35mm through 11x14 and also employ electronic equipment for capturing images as well as to print those and files from scanned film.

All this "magic" talk is hype. A photochemical process is science, not magic. Magic? With the press of a button, my inkjet printers convert digits into the best looking prints attainable. Unlike gelatin silver papers available today, Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta Satin prints made on my Canon PRO-100 have a surface that's of perfect reflectance. Shiny enough to support incredibly rich blacks, but not so shiny that they demand rigidly controlled lighting to view without being obscured by the veiling glare of reflections. A perfect color match for Rising mat board. No optical brightening agents to induce garish whites. And those prints "magically" spit out of a machine on my desk.

The only shortcoming of magical inkjet prints is that they have lower life expectancy than legacy gelatin silver prints. Note that we've no reliable data concerning the longevity of today's darkroom papers. For almost everyone here, that's of no consequence. Look at the Is there a really strong interest in film photography thread for some reality about how estate executors and legatees send almost all personal photos directly to landfills. That's been my experience with the three estates for which I was executor. In the case of exceptional people whose work might be of some value to the world at large, whether because they're famous and it's so-called "art" or they are doing HABS/HAER/HALS projects, shooting on polyester-base film and printing whichever way desired solves the image life expectancy problem for at least 500 years.

Bottom line: film is not dead -- yet. When the fad young people are driving of 35mm color to be posted on "social" media fades away (pun intended), the second great industry contraction will occur. That will result in prices which make what today's PHOTRIO posters moan about seem like the good old days. If an extremely small manufacturing base can still be supported by a market with extremely high levels of disposable income, some film will survive. We'll see.

Actually, some of you will see. I don't expect that point to be reached within my actuarially probable remaining lifetime. It's like when someone hysterically scared about a non-critical medical issue ask their doctor "am I going to die?" and gets the answer "yes, but not today."

Reminds me of the joke about the doctor who gave his patient six months to live. When the patient told him he didn't have the money to pay his bill, the doctor gave him an extra six months to live.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I also don't know a single person here in the Atlanta area who still has a conventional land line. (My sister back in TN does.) Some have VOIP numbers either through independent providers or their ISP like Comcast (maybe that's what you meant?) but not a POTS line. I can kind of see that, as there's redundancy for your cell phone(s.) You pay less money for more speed than I get here. I get about 300 Mbps and pay a lot more than that. But "it is what it is" because, as I said, I MUST have Internet. Even if I were not a complete web junky, and I am, I have to have it for my work. So Internet service doesn't factor in to cost comparisons of video for me.

My "landline" is VOIP and of course, won't work if we lose AC power, unlike conventional landlines that have battery backup. But I can't convince my wife. I don't even remember my "landline" phone number. It's embarrassing. When I fill out those forms asking for it, I just insert my cell phone number.

 

[mehguy]

Broadcast television is more and more the choice of older people. The number of younger people who even have a television - as against a monitor that accesses only non-broadcast and non-cable network sources - is decreasing rapidly.

Can confirm. I'm in my early 20s and I have no intention to ever have cable.

It doesn't seem like a very good value nowadays. Seems like you get 1000+ channels but without much actual content you're interested in.

 

[mehguy]

It's ridiculous. I don't see the benefits. Cable at least was reliable. Streaming works only as well as your connection at that moment in time.

I had the completely opposite experience. It seems like Cable is very bloated now and you're paying for 1000+ channels for maaaybbe an interest in like 10 channels.

 

[VinceInMT]

My "landline" is VOIP and of course, won't work if we lose AC power, unlike conventional landlines that have battery backup. But I can't convince my wife. I don't even remember my "landline" phone number. It's embarrassing. When I fill out those forms asking for it, I just insert my cell phone number.

Coincidently. I am calling our landline company tomorrow to, after decades, discontinue the service. For some reason we lost our dial tone last week and after going through all the required online testing, virtual and then real chatting, the best they could do is say they would send out a tech 2-weeks from now, The only reason we still had the landline was that my wife uses it for the fax in her accounting business. She’ll switch to a different method for that.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Coincidently. I am calling our landline company tomorrow to, after decades, discontinue the service. For some reason we lost our dial tone last week and after going through all the required online testing, virtual and then real chatting, the best they could do is say they would send out a tech 2-weeks from now, The only reason we still had the landline was that my wife uses it for the fax in her accounting business. She’ll switch to a different method for that.

Oh yes. Fax too. Damn doctors always want to use fax because of US privacy laws. They refuse to use email. Really dumb.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Maybe a more accurate word would be “wonder” as in a “sense of wonder” rather than “magic” to describe the expirience, like when looking at a sunset, an image from space, or other image that is commonly photographed. Heck, I still get a “sense of wonder” when I flick a switch on the wall and an electronic bulb lights up the room. I hope to never become so cynical that that leaves me.

Perhaps because fascination with how two spoons, a flashlight battery and a bulb enabled me to "create" light while under my bed when I was around three years old motivated earning an electrical engineering degree many years later, I no longer experience "wonder" when flicking a wall switch to illuminate the room. Or selecting "print" and seeing an inkjet print emerge from the Canon. Or dunking an exposed sheet of Multigrade Portfolio in diluted liquid LPD and watching an image develop. This is not cynicism. It's mature understanding of how things in the world work.

My "landline" is VOIP and of course, won't work if we lose AC power, unlike conventional landlines that have battery backup. But I can't convince my wife. I don't even remember my "landline" phone number. It's embarrassing. When I fill out those forms asking for it, I just insert my cell phone number.

I've refused to relinquish our POTS landline. It works perfectly during an extended utility power outage, long after cell phone tower batteries have been depleted. The central office has a battery bank for short-term backup and a diesel generator for when the power company's failure lasts more than a few seconds. Murphy's law says that there will be a medical emergency here during a power failure. When that happens, whoever's still standing will successfully dial 911. For those who've succumbed to the siren song of lower VOIP monthly bills, if they don't survive such an emergency, their heirs will inherit a bit more.

Coincidently. I am calling our landline company tomorrow to, after decades, discontinue the service. For some reason we lost our dial tone last week and after going through all the required online testing, virtual and then real chatting, the best they could do is say they would send out a tech 2-weeks from now, The only reason we still had the landline was that my wife uses it for the fax in her accounting business. She’ll switch to a different method for that.

A case of "one doesn't get what one doesn't pay for?" Two months ago our POTS landline lost dial tone. AT&T had someone here within a couple of hours, the tech re-routed our connection to spare conductors already available in under-street conduit and had things working again almost immediately. Perhaps all those savings you experienced by leaving California for Montana are reflected in state regulators there not mandating that POTS service be retained and held to high service standards like California's do?

Oh yes. Fax too. Damn doctors always want to use fax because of US privacy laws. They refuse to use email. Really dumb.

The laws aren't dumb. What's dumb is that, unlike most doctors here, those you apparently deal with don't use secure messaging systems that obviate any need for fax.

 

[faberryman]

Murphy's law says that there will be a medical emergency here during a power failure. When that happens, whoever's still standing will successfully dial 911. For those who've succumbed to the siren song of lower VOIP monthly bills, if they don't survive such an emergency, their heirs will inherit a bit more.

Living is overrated. If I am going to go, it might as well be during a power outage. Twice the excitement. The last time my kids were home, I saw them out in the backyard with my wife trying to cut the power lines, so I know I am pretty much a goner anyway. They are trying to get to all that money I am saving by not paying for a landline, which is fine. I'd rather them have it than AT&T.

Besides, my landline telephone didn't have a socket where I could plug in my kidney dialysis machine and portable defibrillator. You may have guessed that I have saved even more money by not buying a backup generator. My kids were thrilled with that decision. I am a pretty popular guy.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It feels magical to me - has for 50+ years.

Me too

 

[Pieter12]

Alchemy

 

[VinceInMT]

Perhaps all those savings you experienced by leaving California for Montana are reflected in state regulators there not mandating that POTS service be retained and held to high service standards like California's do?

I experienced more than "savings" by moving here.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I experienced more than "savings" by moving here.

But will your first heart attack be your last? What is the quality and proximity of high quality health care and hospitals?