Film from Italy -- Ferrania starting production 2014

[AgX]

Scaling down on coating width has nothing to do with saving on storeys in a plant or the neccessity to have them.

Things are more complicated.

 

[Nzoomed]

I threw in some cash but I have a hard time believing the cost of moving the equipment is under a few million. Maybe its enough to get the special components that aren't scale dependent leaving the rest for scrap. I imagine that rollers are useful, but the 9 story space between the top and bottom is just a light tight box of warm air. The roller supports would be the wrong size anyway for a scaled down unit.

I wonder if they just want to secure the equipment for future use, they may just be using the LRF for some time until they are ready to ramp up production. They are already getting by with it at present, but obviously they can see the bigger picture now, but thats a good thing, it indicates they have had far more interest and support than anticipated.

 

[Arctic amateur]

The may be reading this thread here. They now want to save the CTA film base machinery, which Robert seabrook has previously described as a monster to keep running. Perhaps they are not happy with buying film base form outside like Ilford has been doing. They also want to to save the Full on Chemical synthesis factory, AND the industrial sized coater. Which several here have wondered if the research coater is capable of producing consistent colour film.

One thing that I wonder is the "numbered limited edition" of the rewards film prizes, are we supposed to just cherish these collectables or are they actually going to be useable film?

According to the interview in the latest Film Photography Podcast, the research coater works but its output volume is too small to serve the market, and the full-scale machinery is too large to be economical. They are planning to take apart the full-scale machines and build smaller machines from them, machines that will fit into the building Film-Ferrania have. The buildings the machines are in now are going down on schedule whether the machines are inside or not.

I'm assuming the reward films will be made on the research coater (I didn't watch the video).

 

[awalker]

They're making coal? I thought they were making film.

Sorry I ment goal and typed something else. I hope this clarified what I wrote

 

[Photo Engineer]

Everything said in the film about making is true. I wish I could help, and I certainly extend to them my best wishes. This is a marvelous effort.

We do not have any idea of how the parts of the puzzle fit together, but we do know that they must have engineers working on the problem. I know that wide machines can be used for narrow coating. We used shims on the coating hopper to make the flow narrower for research purposes, and then we removed the shims for the "real" coating. We did it all on the same equipment. They will probably do the same so as to have one machine for Research, Development, and Production all at the same time.

PE

 

[Nzoomed]

According to the interview in the latest Film Photography Podcast, the research coater works but its output volume is too small to serve the market, and the full-scale machinery is too large to be economical. They are planning to take apart the full-scale machines and build smaller machines from them, machines that will fit into the building Film-Ferrania have. The buildings the machines are in now are going down on schedule whether the machines are inside or not.

I'm assuming the reward films will be made on the research coater (I didn't watch the video).

Thats pretty amazing if they can actually do that!
I dont know how the machinery works, but that is good if they can pull it apart and split it into narrower widths.

Who even designs such machinery?
Its not like there would have been a company that made this machinery for all the film manufacturers, i guess all the film companies would have to have designed their equipment themselves, would have been a huge undertaking.

Buy yes the reward films will be made on the research coater and i expect they will be using it until they get the rest of the plant up to production.

Ive pledged some money and will met my roll by april they say, only problem is do i shoot it or keep it as a collectors item? If its specially numbered, will these numbers show by the sprocket holes when developed or are they just stamped on the box?

 

[Xmas]

... If that was the case, they probably would need the same capacity as kodak has to meet supply and demand, especially if kodak and fuji stop production.

Kodak's formal accounts seem to say that value of sales of legacy products continues to fall... inkjet cartridges and film are lumped together,

maybe Im reading them wrong?

But on a more practical note in '86 my price list shows that there was an Ilford colour transparency film Ilfachrome for sale in Jessops eg 35mm x36 at 2.09 GBP.

Ilfords XP2+ is C41 and second to none.

Id imagine that XP2+ sales are not improved by the demise of C41 labs. Kodak just stopped their BW400CN ie XP2+ equivalent.

I don't know if Ilford are planning on any of

- getting back into colour (slide and print)
- stopping XP2+
- staying stationary

but you are saying there is a market for the first. Note Ilford have done cine in the past as well.

Id say no market.

My crystal ball is rubbish.

 

[AgX]

Who even designs such machinery?

A major manufacturer built such machinery or at least the critical part themself. Especially emulsion coating was a critical step in production speed.

Otherwise there were a few specialized machine builders.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Kodak's formal accounts seem to say that value of sales of legacy products continues to fall... inkjet cartridges and film are lumped together,

maybe Im reading them wrong?

Are you certain it's wise, or even valid, to draw any sort of generalized film industry conclusions by reading only Kodak's financials? Especially since Kodak is no longer primarily a film manufacturing company?

Obviously Film Ferrania has taken a good hard look at exactly the same industry. And they continue moving forward with what must undeniably be a very expensive resurrection project. So obviously they see something different.

Remember what I said about throwing good money after bad? As a rule people don't knowingly do that.

(I've tried asking this before in a more obscurely playful context...)

Ken

 

[Ektagraphic]

Have they mentioned anything along the lines about making sheet film?

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Yes, they have. Look at the Kickstarter page with comments.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

But on a more practical note in '86 my price list shows that there was an Ilford colour transparency film Ilfachrome for sale in Jessops eg 35mm x36 at 2.09 GBP.

I'm sure Simon once said Harman has engineers with colour emulsions knowledge. In other words, they have the expertise to do it.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Have they mentioned anything along the lines about making sheet film?

Here you have it:

Re: 4x5 film - it's of course in the plans for the future, as are many other formats and emulsions, but still WAY too many things to do before we can make any promises...

 

[Nzoomed]

Has anyone been watching the progress on Kickstarter?
Its already up to 50K raised out of the 250K required, the more they get the better i guess.
They are already 20% there in less than 24 hours!


I have the feeling they have far bigger plans than anticipated.
If they want to have their own acetate film plant, that shows how serious they are, Kodak dont even produce theirs anymore.
We were assured that the LRF was enough to meet their demands, but i think they now see the bigger picture where its essential to have their own chemistry lab to produce the chemicals etc, they want to be self sufficient and retool and optimize the coating plant to scale production for future demand.
They are not stupid, they have their heads switched on.

Bit sad that Kodak didnt follow the same path, they could have even kept kodachrome going if they really wanted to. Dwaynes was taking care of all the processing and if the demand dropped that much, they could have implemented a smaller lab machine similar to a K-lab.
But anyway, i hope that film ferrania will change the whole landscape of analog photography for the better, competition is good, it may make them think twice about their business model.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I'm sure Simon once said Harman has engineers with colour emulsions knowledge. In other words, they have the expertise to do it.

Simon also said here on APUG that Ilford has no plans to make any sort of color film.

PE

 

[Xmas]

I'm sure Simon once said Harman has engineers with colour emulsions knowledge. In other words, they have the expertise to do it.

Hi Ricardo

I have Ilford slides and Ilford prints, from Ilford film.
But they pulled out of colour and cine decade(s) ago.
They may not see sufficient market for an investment. to get back in.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Hi Ricardo

I have Ilford slides and Ilford prints, from Ilford film.
But they pulled out of colour and cine decade(s) ago.
They may not see sufficient market for an investment. to get back in.

Gee, you must be blocking me!

 

[lxdude]

Simon also said here on APUG that Ilford has no plans to make any sort of color film.

PE

Yes. Conclusively. Unambiguously. Unequivocally.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Simon also said here on APUG that Ilford has no plans to make any sort of color film.

PE

Correct.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Dave Bias has given another interview where he explains what Film Ferrania wants to do with the Big Boy.

http://filmphotographyproject.com/podcast/2014/09/film-photography-podcast-110-%E2%80%93-october-1-2014

 

[Ektagraphic]

If they haven't been here on APUG yet, it would be great to see them! I'll have to check out that other interview.

 

[Roger Cole]

Simon also said here on APUG that Ilford has no plans to make any sort of color film.

PE

And as long as others are, I applaud this. Ilford does what they do EXTREMELY well, which is make superb black and white materials. I'd rather see that continue and not get sidetracked into something questionable and costly. Of course if other sources dried up, that would be different. But Fuji still makes E6 film as well as C41 and Kodak still makes the best C41 materials ever made, and Ferrania looks to be likely to come online. Ilford can continue kicking butt in black and white.

 

[ericdan]

How good is this film that they're trying to revive? ScotchChrome 100.
I've never shot it and the reviews I see online are not very positive. Especially for the 400 speed version people say it's super grainy.
Is this going to be anywhere close to the quality of slide film that Fujifilm is offering?

 

[Roger Cole]

I don't think the last runs were anything like the earlier films (IOW they were fine) and they aim to improve on that. No one can answer "how good is this film" until they make some and we have it to evaluate. And even then they are likely to improve as they go.

Any 400 slide film they offer is going to be superior to any Fuji still makes. If it spurred Fuji to bring back Provia 400X to compete...and then I woke up.

 

[Nzoomed]

How good is this film that they're trying to revive? ScotchChrome 100.
I've never shot it and the reviews I see online are not very positive. Especially for the 400 speed version people say it's super grainy.
Is this going to be anywhere close to the quality of slide film that Fujifilm is offering?

Most high speed films are rather grainy, i didnt even know ScotchChrome was made in ISO 400!
Anyway, i havnt read any nevative stuff regarding the 3M/Imation product, the flickr samples ive seen appeared acceptable and most people say it has a blue/green colour shift, not that i could really notice much of it. But each film has its own unique qualities, so doesnt bother me, Fuji provia has similar colour shifts; most people feel that provia tends to shift to the blue spectrum.

Film Ferrania say its going to be a re-engineered version anyway, so may not resemble anything like what the was before the plant shut in 2010.
And DONT get confused with the 3M scotch chrome film of the 1970's its NOT the same film!