Film from Italy -- Ferrania starting production 2014

Truzi · Oct 15, 2014

Of the 70k members, I wonder how many are "active." (I wonder this on all forums I join, not just film-related ones). Many members probably just go about their lives, silently relative to this BBS. There are a few automotive sites I joined only to be able to view the media, which makes repair work easier; I don't participate on them. I think some of us just like to debate, though. Perhaps we could improve the market by taking photographs instead of posting so much, lol.

Ferrania will not keep me from buying other brands, especially since I shoot slides the least. I'd be more interested in C-41 from them. If anything, it will cause me to buy additional film, not merely replace whom I buy it from.

The debate reminds me of when I wanted to be the News Director of my campus radio station years ago. We had to get a certain number of signatures to be eligible to run for the position. My opponent was surprised that I signed her petition. I said the petition is to give you the opportunity to run, which I believed she should have. (I lost, but became Assistant News Director.)

Thus, I think Ferrania should enter the game. We don't know what will happen with them, Kodak, or Fuji - but Ferrania has the opportunity to create a "right-sized" production for the future film market. This may give us a better long-term prospect for color film in general. To many of us it's not about a particular company so much as the continuation of (color) film in general. This is why I contributed to the kickstarter.

If Kodak launched a kickstarter to convert to a "right-sized" plant, I'd contribute there too.

Ken Nadvornick · Oct 15, 2014

Truzi said:
If Kodak launched a kickstarter to convert to a "right-sized" plant, I'd contribute there too.

Me too.

It would be the definitive answer to the endlessly begged question "Do they want to continue making film in the long run?" No more daily guessing would be required. Not another speculative peep. Case closed. Where do I send my money?

Ken

MattKing · Oct 15, 2014

Eastman Kodak couldn't approach it that way - they are a publicly listed and traded corporation, and such a "financing" approach would be a death knell for their share price.

Kodak Alaris shouldn't approach it that way - they too rely on commercial credit and they have to do their best to maintain the confidence of their worldwide network of customers.

What could they do instead? See if they can find some government support! Ferrania seems to have that from the Italian government.

Ken Nadvornick · Oct 15, 2014

It was a hypothetical. But IF they did, so would I.

Ken

RattyMouse · Oct 15, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Me too.

It would be the definitive answer to the endlessly begged question "Do they want to continue making film in the long run?" No more daily guessing would be required. Not another speculative peep. Case closed. Where do I send my money?

Ken

Kodak recently tried to sell off their film manufacturing facilities to a consortium of Hollywood studios. I ask you, is that the sign of a company that wants to continue making film?

Do you really think the question you posted above has not been answered?

Ken Nadvornick · Oct 15, 2014

RattyMouse said:
Do you really think the question you posted above has not been answered?

Because it was a hypothetical, IF they did launch a KS project as Truzi mused, THEN they would have by definition already answered the question in the affirmative.

So I would pledge.

Hypothetically...

Ken

Truzi · Oct 15, 2014

Yes, my post was not to be taken so literally. I was voicing support for the future of color film, regardless of company.

RattyMouse · Oct 15, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Because it was a hypothetical, IF they did launch a KS project as Truzi mused, THEN they would have by definition already answered the question in the affirmative.

So I would pledge.

Hypothetically...

Ken

I suggest that Kodak has answered this question, very recently, in the negative. An answer is an answer, whether we like it or not.

Nzoomed · Oct 15, 2014

Truzi said:
If Kodak launched a kickstarter to convert to a "right-sized" plant, I'd contribute there too.

Totally!

I probably would only on the condition that it would mean that they would be able to bring back E6 film, i would so much contribute to such a project, it may be a good wake up call for Kodak, i hope they watch this closely, along with Fuji.

Dont see it happening, but you never know, there is alot of us who want to keep film alive, and i hope that we can still see film around for my next generation to shoot...

RattyMouse said:
Kodak recently tried to sell off their film manufacturing facilities to a consortium of Hollywood studios. I ask you, is that the sign of a company that wants to continue making film?

Do you really think the question you posted above has not been answered?

I would be quite surprised if Hollywood did not buy their facilities. There is alot of producers who are extremely supportive of film, and its not like they dont have the money.
Are you sure that this is true?
I dont recall such news, but i do know that Hollywood has injected some money into Kodak to help keep them running.
Would be the best thing if kodak sold the business to those that are interested in film.

RattyMouse · Oct 15, 2014

Nzoomed said:
I would be quite surprised if Hollywood did not buy their facilities. There is alot of producers who are extremely supportive of film, and its not like they dont have the money.
Are you sure that this is true?
I dont recall such news, but i do know that Hollywood has injected some money into Kodak to help keep them running.
Would be the best thing if kodak sold the business to those that are interested in film.

Yes, this is 100% true. IF you re-read the articles that started to appear when Quintin Tarantino and other Hollywood directors stepped into keep film alive, you will find that Kodak offered to sell their manufacturing facilities to a Hollywood studio consortium. The most certainly and emphatically said NO to this and declined to buy.

Kodak offered to sell off their last bit of film related business.

To me, and perhaps ONLY me, that tells me loud and clear that Kodak has no interest in staying involved with film.

Others can disagree with me and say that this shows that Kodak wants to have a long term future in film.

Photo Engineer · Oct 15, 2014

Nzoomed said:
Dont see it happening, but you never know, there is alot of us who want to keep film alive, and i hope that we can still see film around for my next generation to shoot...

Where is that "alot"? That was my question before. APUG has over 70,000 members/subscribers and just a few of them posting here. If 70,000 people each wrote to Kodak via the media, APUG or whatever, this might mean something. They don't. So, start a write in campaign to EK or do something except sit on your collective butts and just talk like a bunch of old men with nothing to do!

Heavens knows what that feels like after an extended illness, but at least you guys can do something about it except talk!

PE

Ken Nadvornick · Oct 16, 2014

It really all depends on which company's definition of "a lot" is in play, doesn't it?

Ken

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 16, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Where is that "alot"? That was my question before. APUG has over 70,000 members/subscribers and just a few of them posting here. If 70,000 people each wrote to Kodak via the media, APUG or whatever, this might mean something. They don't. So, start a write in campaign to EK or do something except sit on your collective butts and just talk like a bunch of old men with nothing to do!

Heavens knows what that feels like after an extended illness, but at least you guys can do something about it except talk!

PE

+1
I hope serial complainant Ratty Mouse take notice.

PKM-25 · Oct 16, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Where is that "alot"? That was my question before. APUG has over 70,000 members/subscribers and just a few of them posting here. If 70,000 people each wrote to Kodak via the media, APUG or whatever, this might mean something. They don't. So, start a write in campaign to EK or do something except sit on your collective butts and just talk like a bunch of old men with nothing to do!

Heavens knows what that feels like after an extended illness, but at least you guys can do something about it except talk!

Hi Ron,

Thanks for speaking your mind. I have wrote and do write to various contacts at KA a few times a year, usually opening with how grateful I am that the great films we have are still being offered. I then speak to the idea of being innovative in expanding the niche marketing of film but understand that it will take time for the new players to come up with a proper game plan. I also actively shoot some of their films and always cite the films in any post on the web or social media. I never bash any maker of film on the web, I don't pick apart the businesses that currently make film, struggling or not....nor do I pick apart ones we have lost like Efke.

I am somewhat of a public figure in my small but artistic and wealthy part of the world. When folks ask about film or Kodak, I speak entirely positively about it and I at least educate them if not inspire them to consider film or darkroom pursuits if they are inclined to give it a shot. My passion is infectious, so much so that earlier this year while shooting for my biggest client I got a thank you from the CEO ( the man who wrote the biography on Steve Jobs ) and in turn, a standing ovation in front of about 1,300 people. In real life, as in person, people listen to me so I never talk crap about ANY film maker.

I guess I am just weird, naive or stupid for I just don't see what in the hell the point is in constantly dragging Kodak into *EVERY* single topic one could possibly imagine, usually resulting in the usual bashing.

Go Ferrania, they got my backing.
Go Kodak Alaris, they have my backing too.
Go Ilford, they get the same backing Kodak does.

I just put my Winter tires on my Audi, maybe I should take a road trip out to Rochester to have lunch with you and other folks I care about.

Thanks for your contributions to this site...we both know it is not easy...

analoguey · Oct 16, 2014

PKM-25 said:
I guess I am just weird, naive or stupid for I just don't see what in the hell the point is in constantly dragging Kodak into *EVERY* single topic one could possibly imagine,

You're not the only one, it is grating, I quite ignored the ferrania threads because it had become just that.
Hoping this kickstarter thread remains on point.

Maybe we should start a thread which says 'spread the Kodak love/hate here'.

Sent from Tap-a-talk

pdeeh · Oct 16, 2014

MattKing said:
What could [KA] do instead? See if they can find some government support! Ferrania seems to have that from the Italian government.

Italian regional government I think, and remarkably enlightened to boot.

In the UK (and KA is essentially a UK company now) there's no equivalent, and there is not the smallest chance of central government shelling out on such a proposal.

The shadow of deLorean still haunts the corridors of Whitehall, let alone all the other reasons ...

RattyMouse · Oct 16, 2014

Poisson Du Jour said:
+1
I hope serial complainant Ratty Mouse take notice.

I shot 45 rolls of 120 film in 7 days ten days ago. Is that doing enough or should I be doing more?

Nzoomed · Oct 16, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Where is that "alot"? That was my question before. APUG has over 70,000 members/subscribers and just a few of them posting here. If 70,000 people each wrote to Kodak via the media, APUG or whatever, this might mean something. They don't. So, start a write in campaign to EK or do something except sit on your collective butts and just talk like a bunch of old men with nothing to do!

Heavens knows what that feels like after an extended illness, but at least you guys can do something about it except talk!

PE

There is alot of people interested in film who are not even members here, i was one of them, and ive only joined here fairly recently.
Anyway, a campaign to write in to kodak may very well be a good idea, but will they listen? They dont listen to us on their facebook. They were not even interested in any submissions ive made for photo of the day that were shot on their E6 films.
They still dont feel the market is big enough to produce E6, and will they feel confident to redesign the factory? who knows. If they are watching Film Ferrania's success, it may make them think twice. (And yes im confident they will be successful)

RattyMouse · Oct 16, 2014

Nzoomed said:
There is alot of people interested in film who are not even members here, i was one of them, and ive only joined here fairly recently.
Anyway, a campaign to write in to kodak may very well be a good idea, but will they listen? They dont listen to us on their facebook. They were not even interested in any submissions ive made for photo of the day that were shot on their E6 films.
They still dont feel the market is big enough to produce E6, and will they feel confident to redesign the factory? who knows. If they are watching Film Ferrania's success, it may make them think twice. (And yes im confident they will be successful)

This is really sad. We are talking about a major multimillion dollar corporation that doesnt have the ability to recognize their own market.

Film Ferrania is showing how its done. Big time.

Nzoomed · Oct 16, 2014

RattyMouse said:
This is really sad. We are talking about a major multimillion dollar corporation that doesnt have the ability to recognize their own market.

Film Ferrania is showing how its done. Big time.

+1
Its totally sad, especially considering that they are considered to produce the best films available, and all they want to do is remove products.

I have no option other than to support Ferrania unless Kodak demonstrates that they plan to listen to us and give us the films we want. I know they were in bankruptcy, but are still a multimillion dollar company as you say, so surely they have the ability to downsize alot easier than Ferrania?

I think this is going to be a total embarrassment for Kodak, and i for one dont care anymore.
First they take away Kodachrome, and tell us to shoot E100g, which i have been doing and now they take that away. Epic fail.
Kodachrome dying doesnt bother me, but their E6 films do. They no longer have a customer, so why should i be forced to shoot their C41 films which im not interested in? I will just take my business elsewhere.
Ferrania will prevail and they will deliver with newer films in time to come.

They have had far more support than what myself or Film Ferrania ever anticipated.

Xmas · Oct 16, 2014

Nzoomed said:
+1
Its totally sad, especially considering that they are considered to produce the best films available, and all they want to do is remove products.

replace want by need, I can still buy Plus-X over counter, their sales are not matching production...
Ive had more trouble with Kodak film than Ilford or Foma.

Nzoomed said:
I have no option other than to support Ferrania unless Kodak demonstrates that they plan to listen to us and give us the films we want. I know they were in bankruptcy, but are still a multimillion dollar company as you say, so surely they have the ability to downsize alot easier than Ferrania?

When they stop making you can hoard, but rather regressive
ability and inclination are different things, they need all their pennies to diversify, i.e. close film down.

Nzoomed said:
I think this is going to be a total embarrassment for Kodak, and i for one dont care anymore.
First they take away Kodachrome, and tell us to shoot E100g, which i have been doing and now they take that away. Epic fail.
Kodachrome dying doesnt bother me, but their E6 films do. They no longer have a customer, so why should i be forced to shoot their C41 films which im not interested in? I will just take my business elsewhere.

They are trying to milk the cow dry, pretty normal in business. They are not going to be embarrassed.
I used to use Kchrome 25 but then switched to Velvia cause I did not like the 64 colours, tried Ferrannis as well, but it is simple when it is Hobsons choice, you don't need a trial...

Nzoomed said:
Ferrania will prevail and they will deliver with newer films in time to come.

They have had far more support than what myself or Film Ferrania ever anticipated.

I'm hoping they can produce one emulsion and package to sell - Id don't see the need for more.
They might make more profit with an E6, C41 and mono portfolio.
They need to survive, e.g. the glut of Fuji dumping Agfa Vista. There is still Plus-x available here.
they need to restart soon cause E6 labs are not that plentiful now.
Dont forget the FotoKemia factory was just around the corner of the Adriatic, it closed cause they could not sell their bread and butter films in sufficient quantity. They were good quality, whatever others say.

wblynch · Oct 16, 2014

I know I've done my share of complaining about Koda's management but they aren't dead quite yet. They still produce amazing color and black and white films, not to mention color print paper.

I can buy Gold 200 or 400 all day long for less than $4 a roll and their greater films like Portra 160/400 abd Ektar 100 are $6 or less.

I want Ferrania to succeed in the best way but there's no way in hell I'll be paying $10 or $20 for Ferrania especially while Kodak and Fuji are here.

When those two are gone altogether, if I have to pay insane prices for Ferrania, then I will shoot film strictly as a novelty and likely no more than 2 or 3 rolls a year.

Ferrania at $5 a roll... Then I'd probably stay at my average of 80 rolls a year.

railwayman3 · Oct 16, 2014

Xmas said:
Dont forget the FotoKemia factory was just around the corner of the Adriatic, it closed cause they could not sell their bread and butter films in sufficient quantity. They were good quality, whatever others say.

I don't think that's totally correct. My understanding is that the Efke plant required too much money to repair and update, and that the land was valuable for development?
Ferrania seems to have the ability and knowledge to use and modify existing plant....maybe they will be able, in due course, to profitable fill the Fotokemika niche for low-volume specialist products.
(And I agree that Efke were not bad films....just needed a bit of patience and care. I still have a shelf full in the freezer.)

StoneNYC · Oct 16, 2014

This is now a kodak vs Ferrania thread... Ugh...

Dan (PKM25) is right, this place has less and less hope for film every day, though I disagree about the RF forum that's worse than here, but I do agree that LF Forum is better than here, I won't even post new topics here because I get trolled and attacked. I could be sharing my new 8x10 Saltzman restoration with everyone and contribute to the knowledge base here, but it's filled with mesn and and angry people who just like to poke others with sticks and then complain when the person pushes them back for being attacked.

The hope for film will be in the sharing, but if people get scared off by "the good ole boys" who protect "their own" instead of cutting out the trouble makers, then there is no hope.

Stop the hate of kodak

Stop the yammering on of negativity, and share your film work, images are contagious but only if others can see them. And they should be GOOD not crap (But that's another story).

At this point this thread shouldn't have much to say because nothing new has happened, but instead there's just a constant hundreds of posts of back and forth rhetoric.

Part of the reason that the large format for him doesn't have as much "going on" is that there's not as much needed to be said, they say what they need to say and move on, maybe it's because they shoot large-format and it's slower and so they feel that they don't need to respond so quickly, and are used to a slower pace or maybe a more thoughtful pace, but a thread with a single question shouldn't go hundreds of posts long, it should be a simple question with a simple answer and there you have it that's it at the end maybe a final end result from the original poster but that's it.

Well that was my rant for the day.

Viva FILMferrania!

georg16nik · Oct 16, 2014

rbultman said:
I gave to the cause
of slide film resurrected,
perhaps a fogged dream.

The above gives proof.
A poet? Certainly not.
A dreamer? Always.

Ok, that's the best I got. Two Haiku's in one message. I probably haven't written a Haiku since the 4th grade.

Honest poem, I like it!!

Film from Italy -- Ferrania starting production 2014

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