Film from Italy -- Ferrania starting production 2014

[Nzoomed]

If you read the entire website, you'll know that you won't see their film on the shop shelves ever.

Yes im aware of that, and I think its a good thing, as id rather buy direct from them and save money from not buying off the middleman.

It was just a figure of speech i was using by saying it will reach the shelves.

Not necessarily they picked the most resently developed film as it would have the fewest problems to remanufacture, reengineering is remanufacture.

If they see light at the end of the tunnel ie make a profit they might decide to expand the range.

Well we will wait and see i guess, im expecting there will be some differences in the chemistry, particularly if they have to re manufacture chemicals etc.

I hope its successful, as we might see a high ISO version in 400 and possibly a high saturation version comparable to velvia or e100vs in the future.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I just wish you guys new how hard it was to engineer a film, let alone re-engineer one.

PE

 

[Nzoomed]

I just wish you guys new how hard it was to engineer a film, let alone re-engineer one.

PE

I agree, and thats what they claim they are doing. At least they know what they are doing!

 

[Photo Engineer]

I'm sure that they do, but we are all still waiting.

PE

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

And how do you reach this conclusion?

It is spell out in some comments and questions asked.
Basically, there is an idea of selling directly to consumers through an online shop.
But, it isn't definitive.

 

[Nzoomed]

I'm sure that they do, but we are all still waiting.

PE

Im hoping they have their heads down at the moment, they have been quiet for a few days now, their last update was earlier this month.
If everything has gone to their plan, hopefully they will have film coated very soon.

I would love to go over there and visit their factory, these guys are pretty much our last hope for colour photography the way things are going, perhaps we will see Chinese films appear in the future also, dont know what to think of that!

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

I'm sure that they do, but we are all still waiting.

The one thing that is absolutely certain is that whatever E-6 products they end up with will far surpass any of Kodak's current E-6 products.

Not trying to be snarky here. But people are really excited* because someone is trying very hard to reintroduce a beloved class of films that Kodak repeatedly told us there was no market for, then abruptly walked away from. Say it ain't so, Joe. But it was.

If Kodak were still manufacturing E-6, the Film Ferrania effort wouldn't even exist. And I would still be using Kodak film. But sadly, very sadly, by their own choice they aren't. So I can't. And Fujifilm, being another overcapacity behemoth, is similarly on the E-6 ropes. Given these stark realities, all I can continue to say is...

Go Ferrania.



[Edit: Guess what? After perusing the Ferrania website earlier today looking for anything new, I actually clicked over to eBay and searched on slide projectors. Imagine that...]

Ken

* From a post 18 days ago on the Film Ferrania website: "My dreams are coming true! You guys are doing the Lord's work!"

 

[ME Super]

I just wish you guys new how hard it was to engineer a film, let alone re-engineer one.

PE

Undoubtedly, which is why I work in IT, which comes with its own set of problems to solve, and why I have so much respect for those who engineer the films we all love.

Go Ferrania!

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ken, technology similar to Ektar and very advanced could have been introduced by EK into a new line of E6 films and if they had, believe me it would have knocked your socks off! But they didn't. And, since it is covered in recent patents Ferrania cannot AFAIK unless they license the new stuff. Much the same goes for Fuji's newest work. So.....

So, the films probably will not surpass existing E6 films. If they drop back and rely on the 3M films we last saw, well, then there is going to be a small problem.

IDK what is coming along from them, nor do I know when it will arrive, but I do know that the road is long, hard and rocky. I wish them the best..

PE

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Ken, technology similar to Ektar and very advanced could have been introduced by EK into a new line of E6 films and if they had, believe me it would have knocked your socks off! But they didn't.

I don't doubt that for a second, Ron. Not for a second. But unless you know something we don't, Kodak isn't going to act on that technology, are they?

I'd honestly give my right arm if Kodak had decided to go in a different direction. Perhaps more like the Leica brand. Or the Ilford brand. Feet firmly planted in both digital and analog photographic camps. Had become the preeminent overall imaging company, regardless of technology. What a dream-come-true that would have been.

I'm still having a hard time accepting that up here in the Pacific Northwest the autumn colors are coming, and Kodak transparency film will again play no part in it. And that when the holiday photos arrive after that, Kodak won't even be mentioned. My wife will have Fujifilm C-41, and I'll have Ilford B&W in my antique cameras. There's something still very unnatural for me about that. I'd been a loyal Kodak customer (including that professional stint in a small commercial darkroom) for my entire life.

Heck, you should see my personal darkroom, Ron. Actually, you already have. Remember that Kodak Workshop Series book Building a Home Darkroom? THAT's my darkroom. Right down to the recommended plastic vapor barrier sheeting before the walls and paneling went up. Walk in and you'll think you're standing inside that damned book. The book still sits on a shelf in that darkroom as I write this. It was my darkroom construction Bible.

No, I kept up my end of the loyalty bargain. As I know so many of you guys did as well. You guys, and the products and processes you made available for us all to use, were awesome. And I don't use that term very often.

But today I have to deal with the realities. Kodak walked away. And others are trying to step up and take their place. And while the former is a bad thing, the latter is a good thing. I don't think anyone is expecting a Kodak-level next-generation knock-your-socks-off E-6 product. I know I'm not. But without a superior quality Kodak product to compare it against, people will adjust pretty quickly. And I'm sure it will also improve over time.

Fujifilm comparisons, you say? Well, maybe at the beginning. But not for very much longer, I fear. And the promise of longer-term availability will probably trump in that case anyway. The only film I've ever hoarded is about 45 rolls of Provia 400 in 120, currently frozen, to tide me over until hopefully Ferrania can cook up something at that speed. Maybe they will. Maybe they won't. I guess we'll see.

So the bottom line for me continues to be an E-6 film in the hand is worth two in the bush. Or, more bluntly, when deciding which films to purchase, extinction is not a viable film choice option...

Go Ferrania.

Ken

 

[ericdan]

what, so Ferrania wants to make decent E6, but Kodak keeps the patents so they can't?
What's the problem with the 3M films?

 

[MattKing]

what, so Ferrania wants to make decent E6, but Kodak keeps the patents so they can't?
What's the problem with the 3M films?

The Kodak patents are related to their other products as well, so disclosure might have far reaching effects.

And as for 3M transparency film - ugly, large grain, poor colour, strange contrast.

At least compared to the then current Kodachrome films.

 

[wblynch]

Forget about comparing them to Kodak transparency of any kind. Kodak transparency is long dead. You'll be comparing them to a ghost.

 

[TheToadMen]

Forget about comparing them to Kodak transparency of any kind. Kodak transparency is long dead. You'll be comparing them to a ghost.

And a ghost is a transparency after all

 

[Nzoomed]

what, so Ferrania wants to make decent E6, but Kodak keeps the patents so they can't?
What's the problem with the 3M films?

Im guessing that the patents that PE is referring to are not related to E6 films in general, but rather another technology that ektar uses that i assume gives a finer grain.

 

[Xmas]

I don't doubt that for a second, Ron. Not for a second. But unless you know something we don't, Kodak isn't going to act on that technology, are they?

I'd honestly give my right arm if Kodak had decided to go in a different direction. Perhaps more like the Leica brand. Or the Ilford brand. Feet firmly planted in both digital and analog photographic camps. Had become the preeminent overall imaging company, regardless of technology. What a dream-come-true that would have been.

I'm still having a hard time accepting that up here in the Pacific Northwest the autumn colors are coming, and Kodak transparency film will again play no part in it. And that when the holiday photos arrive after that, Kodak won't even be mentioned. My wife will have Fujifilm C-41, and I'll have Ilford B&W in my antique cameras. There's something still very unnatural for me about that. I'd been a loyal Kodak customer (including that professional stint in a small commercial darkroom) for my entire life.

Heck, you should see my personal darkroom, Ron. Actually, you already have. Remember that Kodak Workshop Series book Building a Home Darkroom? THAT's my darkroom. Right down to the recommended plastic vapor barrier sheeting before the walls and paneling went up. Walk in and you'll think you're standing inside that damned book. The book still sits on a shelf in that darkroom as I write this. It was my darkroom construction Bible.

No, I kept up my end of the loyalty bargain. As I know so many of you guys did as well. You guys, and the products and processes you made available for us all to use, were awesome. And I don't use that term very often.

But today I have to deal with the realities. Kodak walked away. And others are trying to step up and take their place. And while the former is a bad thing, the latter is a good thing. I don't think anyone is expecting a Kodak-level next-generation knock-your-socks-off E-6 product. I know I'm not. But without a superior quality Kodak product to compare it against, people will adjust pretty quickly. And I'm sure it will also improve over time.

Fujifilm comparisons, you say? Well, maybe at the beginning. But not for very much longer, I fear. And the promise of longer-term availability will probably trump in that case anyway. The only film I've ever hoarded is about 45 rolls of Provia 400 in 120, currently frozen, to tide me over until hopefully Ferrania can cook up something at that speed. Maybe they will. Maybe they won't. I guess we'll see.

So the bottom line for me continues to be an E-6 film in the hand is worth two in the bush. Or, more bluntly, when deciding which films to purchase, extinction is not a viable film choice option...

Go Ferrania.

Ken

HiKen

Kodak were (note tense) a large inefficient company not able to anticipate change.

They filed chap 11 in consequence.

And will stop making film soon cause the volume and profit is still falling like lead balloon. If you read their successive qtrly. inc. accounts they are bleak.

Ferranni have a limited window to start E6 before too many labs dissappear. I could still use E6 today for lab access, but it would already be simpler to home process if I accepted the toxicity - I've done it in past. As well as cibachrome.

The problem with reengineering production is getting a set of chemicals that work at reasonable $ that are still allowed.

Id not expect the new film to be as bad or expensive as Impossible but it won't be the same as Kodak either.

Patents are normally no use to competation because they don't detail the process, the Kodak manufacturing process is probably in trash can already.

Patents are written general to stop competation. Kodak still spent few hundred millions ($) 'cloning' Polariods...

I might group buy some of the new film but doubt Id use it. I have E6 in fridge from '06... I've still got the projector, but no cibachrome.

Noel

 

[Prof_Pixel]

I'd honestly give my right arm if Kodak had decided to go in a different direction. ... Feet firmly planted in both digital and analog photographic camps. Had become the preeminent overall imaging company, regardless of technology.

Kodak spent over 20 years trying to do this, but couldn't make the economics work.


The KODAK PREMIER Image Enhancement System that I worked on was a great 'film in - film out' system, but digital capture finally got so good, film capture was no longer attractive.

 

[rbultman]

I'm sure that they do, but we are all still waiting.

PE

Which probably speaks to the difficulty of it.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Photo Engineer]

I sat in a small audience when Dan Carp (CEO before Perez) waved a newspaper that declared Kodak a premier film company and he replied premier IMAGING company. He went on to say that Kodak would be active in all forms of imaging. Then he went on, a year later, appointing Perez to take his place. Carl Kohrt, Carp's associate, was passed over and retired. He would have been a better choice IMHO.

So, bad errors, yes, bad technology, no. IMHO of course. And the patents for Ektar would have worked in any film because it included emulsion and coupler technology. Keep in mind that these patents do teach some core technology leading to good color and fine grain and they must work "for one skilled in the art". In other words, the parts not there are easily found by a photo engineer.

PE

 

[Nzoomed]

I sat in a small audience when Dan Carp (CEO before Perez) waved a newspaper that declared Kodak a premier film company and he replied premier IMAGING company. He went on to say that Kodak would be active in all forms of imaging. Then he went on, a year later, appointing Perez to take his place. Carl Kohrt, Carp's associate, was passed over and retired. He would have been a better choice IMHO.

So, bad errors, yes, bad technology, no. IMHO of course. And the patents for Ektar would have worked in any film because it included emulsion and coupler technology. Keep in mind that these patents do teach some core technology leading to good color and fine grain and they must work "for one skilled in the art". In other words, the parts not there are easily found by a photo engineer.

PE

Do you think that the guys at ferrania will be able to reverse engineer it and make it work with their films?
Obviously if its in a patent, that means that the technology is made public as the patent document describes it, i suspect that the patent describes the chemical compunds rather than an actual process.
Obviously if its patented, they would have to licence it, which i doubt kodak will allow, but there is always ways around these things, and usually requires that the molecules are changed slightly.

Either way, if they are clued up enough, they should be able to figure out what makes it tick, and they probably can tweak a few things and possibly even improve on it if these people are switched on enough and know what they are doing.

 

[Rudeofus]

If these patents cover only technologies used for Ektar, then they could still make something like E100VS ...

 

[Nzoomed]

If these patents cover only technologies used for Ektar, then they could still make something like E100VS ...

All i know is if Kodak decide to scrap all film production, they would be stupid not to licence their patents to ferrania or any other film producers if it means they will get a return.

 

[StoneNYC]

All i know is if Kodak decide to scrap all film production, they would be stupid not to licence their patents to ferrania or any other film producers if it means they will get a return.

I don't think you understand, some of the patents that they use are still used in the film that they currently produce, it would be foolish for them to share that information because it would allow the other film companies to have knowledge that they spent millions of dollars producing and it would cut into the profits of the films that they still produce which of course are barely making money on as it is...

 

[Photo Engineer]

A patent must be usable to make a product if the patent is given to "one skilled in the art". From all I have seen, these Ferrania people are skilled in the art. That should answer the questions above. Now, the core problem is, do they license Kodak patents or do they strike out on their own. We will know when we see the product.

PE

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I'll be very interested to see what range of products Ferrania put out, particularly with regard to motion picture film as I understand this is an area with declining availability alongside stills film. Noted the film I saw this evening 'Magic in the moonlight' was originated on Kodak film but shown digitally in the cinema, which has been the case for several years now, and a real bugbear of mine, bring back film print projection...

Tom